HBO has updated their schedule with the tenth and final episode of Game of Thrones Season 4. The episode will be titled “The Children,” officially confirming what had previously been released by an HBO affiliate.
Following suit with the past two seasons, this year’s finale will have and extended runtime. “The Children” will be 66 minutes long, beating out season two’s finale for the longest episode yet by just two minutes.
Here is the full list of titles and runtimes for Season 4:
4.01 Two Swords (59 minutes)
4.02 The Lion and the Rose (53 minutes)
4.03 Breaker of Chains (57 minutes)
4.04 Oathkeeper (56 minutes)
4.05 First of His Name (54 minutes)
4.06 The Laws of Gods and Men (51 minutes)
4.07 Mockingbird (52 minutes)
4.08 The Mountain and the Viper (53 minutes)
4.09 The Watchers on the Wall (51 minutes)
4.10 The Children (66 minutes)
Was Oberyn’s Death More Brutal than King Joffrey’s? by Winter Is Coming
Sean Bean
I wonder what’s the season’s total runtime compared to the other three?
This is a mistake — it’s The Watchers ON the Wall, obviously. Getting them to fix.
B
Is the episode going to be Watchers on the Wall or Watchers of the Wall?
Alright, this may be totally off topic and kind of irrelevant but I feel like commenting on it.
Has anyone noticed the fact that in the scenes showing Sansa arriving at The Eyrie, she’s wearing her purple leaves dress (the one she had on when Dontos gave her the necklace in the Godswood in ‘Two Swords’), instead of still wearing the shiny metallic-purple one she had on during the wedding? Is this a blatant visual continuity error or is there a reason for it? Giving the fact that she seemingly escaped King’s Landing with no luggage and no belongings other than her feast dress and the necklace…
Thoughts ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Y_qhzxn2c
Trailer #4 min. 0:27 – min 0:41
Bryan Cogman,
You’re awesome.
Odd, the HBO schedule originally listed 57 minutes for episode 9…
How strange. I could have sworn that episode 9 was listed as 57 minutes long earlier…
Old Valyria,
Considering Sansa’s escape was entirely engineered by Petyr Baelish, he probably arranged to have some of her clothing packed for the trip.
Yes he is. Can’t wait for tonight’s episode
Let’s just hope they didn’t just cut some awesome ending where Stannis gets proper respect for the first time.
All episodes should be this long, heck the permiere and finales should be 90 mins #wishfulthinking
S1: ~ 9h 21min
S2: ~ 9h 4min
S3: ~ 9h 16min
S4: ~ 9h 12min
sati,
I find that very unlikely, particularly since the cavalry charge has been featured several times in the trailers. I guess it was just an error?
So if these run times are accurate (give or take a few minutes), then this will be the longest season yet. (Based on DVD claims…)
Season 1- 538 minutes
Season 2- 522 minutes
Season 3- 535 minutes
Season 4- 552 minutes
Too many Thes and thes!
cosca,
I hope so :) Superglad the finale is over an 1h long, at least.
cosca,
It was probably just a mistake. I mean they got the name of the episode wrong, it’s not inconceivable that they would also get the runtime wrong.
Bryan Cogman,
As for you Mr. Cogman, thank you for coming by again. I doubt you’ll answer but I’ll try anyway. Does the Dreadfort feature in your episode? I know it will in your ep. six but what about ep. four?
Valyrian Plastic,
interesting that Season 2 was the shortest when it was the one with the most new characters, I’m definitely glad this is the longest, it’s a horrible feeling looking at the info and seeing there’s only 15minutes left
At last! HBO thinks of the children!
I just can’t wait for… all of these. What a great season so far.
Bryan Cogman,
Ohhhhh, we likey too. Very much. “Valar Morghulis” was also better for the bonus.
Aaaaand we’ve got the first impersonation of me on WiC! Bound to happen sooner or later. See ya!
B
Bryan Cogman,
You’re not me. Stop that!
Those numbers are incorrect. Season 1 is the longest season with ~ 561 minutes according to my Blu-rays.
Last episode title revealing the Children of the Forest and Three Eyed Raven? Anyone have reason to believe they won’t end the season with Lady Stoneheart?
House Mormont,
I never understood that either. They kept saying “oh how we begged HBO to give us 12 episode to do Clash justice,” yet the first 8 episodes were all 50 minutes with credits, so 47 really. Reading Clash actually made my appreciation for season 2 (which was originally my favourite of the first 3) go down.
I’m glad the extra budget is not only allowing them to make more action sequences bigger and better, but also giving more time to the lighter stories. Season 5 onwards, every episode should be 55-60 minutes if not more, just to fit everything in.
Well… It’s about time somebody tried that move. lol
Please stay! Piss off, fake Bryan :P!
Btw, you’re awesome!
Bryan Cogman,
Not asking anything, just want to say thank you for your work. Can’t wait for your episodes this coming season.
And please don’t let the trolls drive you away, it feels really good knowing that you’re around.
Valyrian Plastic,
completely agree, during the initial chainwatch and the three other Unsullied chainwatches I did season 2 was great, but reading Clash (which is actually my favourite asoiaf book… along with adwd) kind of ruins the experience
but after watching the Youtube clips that the Game of thrones channel spammed from season 2… with Harrenhaal, Pyke, Dragonstone, the Fist of the First Men, Qarth it was all very impressive what they did manage to introduce properly
Is Bryan gone forever now? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
This is why we can’t have nice things people!
Maybe Littlefinger will also go and visit his crappy castle with Sansa..
House Mormont,
Yeah… It was just so strikingly different from the book in so many storylines, and not in a good way. It wasn’t bad at all (my favorite season so far- though of course season 4 is in the running to beat it), but the book was just… So much better. Arya, Jon, the House of the Undying, Bran a and the Reeds, Theon and Ramsay… So much was cut and altered. I can honestly understand how that season is the least favorite for people who read the book before watching it. And wow, another lover of ADWD? High five!
cosca,
And it was just some silly joke by some silly person :(
I am going to find him. Eat his mama, eat his papa. By the way the guy playing Styr is awesome. Where is Joseph Gatt and his owlage?
Bryan Cogman (fake),
What really matters is that what you did caused Cogman to bounce. Whether he’ll return or not… who’s to say. All I can confirm is that thread is made less brighter for his absence.
House Mormont,
I cite S2 as my least favorite season, but mostly because it had less overall story beats and the necessity of certain cuts and alterations. ACOK is one of my favorites.
The production sets a new standard for itself every year. I couldn’t help but think back on the gates of Qarth when I saw Meereen’s awe-inspiring walls. Those folks just don’t let up, and I love it.
jentario,
The pacing’s just right in adwd and acok, I thought asos was too fast and punchy, which I know is why people love it, but my kind of chapters are like Catelyn realising she’s lost everything she cared about and dedicated herself to, or Reek battling with his mind and identity, rather than the boom boom boom that was asos
House Mormont,
They certainly did some things right. Blackwater still holds up wonderfully, the finale has many cool moments and the sheer variety of designs was great. Unfortunately they did some things wrong too… Margaery’s dress, expanded Robb and Tywin with very little interesting material, and of course… Dany!
“WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS!” is hardly the worst bit about her arc, that would be when she said, “I did not come here to argue grammar.” They seriously thought a Lannister soldier farting in the dark would make for better television than Bael the Bard’s story.
You mean B Cog witnessed the Pedro Pascal casting thread and this is what drives him away? nooooooooooooo that was our only writer
Uh, no.
Season 1 – 561 minutes
Season 2 – 543 minutes
Season 3 – 555 minutes
Season 4 – Anywhere from 545-550 minutes
jentario,
It was Joseph Gatt who grabbed the boy and brought him over to with Styr last episode. Didn’t get to see any owlage though, sadly. And yeah, really like the guy playing Styr.
jentario,
There’s seriously nothing wrong with ADWD and AFFC for that matter. Before I read them, I was aware of the hate and I was so ready to hate them, but I couldn’t. They may not have a lot of action, but they have a lot of great character moments. ADWD is actually my 2nd favourite book after ASOS.
Yes, we can tell when it’s Bryan, because every user has to post with an email. It only takes a moment to check and see that the fake is using the wrong one.
People who impersonate anyone else, whether it’s staff, Bryan, or other people connected with the show, will find themselves banned from commenting here. Got it? Good.
Valyrian Plastic,
“The beauty of Kwarth is known to me!”
2×10 was definitely amazing, I always cry at Luwin, Tyrion and Shae and Dany and Drogo
I agree the Wolf and the Lion conflict was ill handled aka invisible, I mean they don’t even say what Robb’s doing or why or where? Just because Riverrun was cut doesn’t mean Robb had to have no strategy at all, as an Unsullied I thought Robb and Tywin were fighting eachother in the Riverlands
and then there’s characters they crammed in but then dropped after because there was never screentime for them in the first place, like Quaithe and Lancel… sloppy
Ours is the Fury,
Can I be Venessa Taylor?
Balerion The Cat,
I think it’s a lot different if you read it after years and years of waiting and really expected the characters you’ve been introduced to, to go places.
I read it knowing people weren’t fond of them, lots of POVs from Dorne and the Iron Islands were introduced, and I read them combined, so it was a lot better, and I really enjoyed them
House Mormont,
It’s funny that in season 1 she has a line about Qarth and she pronounces it right. Man, Dany’s storyline was a mess in season 2, I pray to R’hllor every night to have mercy on Dany in season 5.
The Children will be epic with so many final-scene-of-the-season-worthy moments:
– Jon elected LC
– Bran meets the children of the forest
– Petyr kills Lysa
– Brienne meets Lady Stoneheart
The unsullied viewers will be in a state of shock after viewing this episode!
Sunday nights seems to go by way too fast.
Why do we have two 51 minute episodes? If we can have a 66 minute episode, can’t we add a few more minutes to the others?
‘pouts’
Like Ellaria, I am feeling greedy. ;)
Still, that is awesome news about the finale.
BTW, has there been news yet of who is directing each episode this season?
House Mormont,
I did the same. I still found most of the new POVs incredibly boring, and both books to be chock full of stalling and filler. Reading it combined made it even worse for me.
House Mormont,
Yeah, there’s that too. I was introduced to ASOIAF in 2011, after ADWD was launched, and I can easily imagine how waiting for so long could have ruined AFFC and ADWD to me.
House Mormont,
Dorne and the Iron Islands were what kept me going through the first half of AFFC. The rest of the stories took a long, long time to get going. I still remember those first few Brienne chapters… Holy shit, that was something. George could have used a stricter editor on that one.
ADWD was all okay, except for the lack of a proper ending. That issue was the reason it got bumped below ASOS. I understand that people say that that book was too explosive and had a crazy pace but man, what a ride! I think TWOW will have to be similarly paced if GRRM wants to avoid an eighth novel, and it’s good to know that we got to milder, more character driven books before we step back on the rollercoster. That said, I can not wait for TWOW.
Balerion The Cat,
I trust D&D that they’ve learned from each mistake they’ve made, I was really hoping for a better Meereen with the Shavepate and the Green Grace’s perspective and plots being laid out and the true visual of having Yunkai, New Ghis, Tolos and Qarth surrounding her, but from Season 4 I’m guessing it’ll be a lot slimmer, so I guess momentum’s good too
Also, BLOODRAVEN!
A thousand eyes and one!
If an underground psychic Targaryen tree abomination doesn’t catch the unsullied off guard, I don’t know what will.
The actor that plays Sam has stated that we won’t get a finale scene this season which every1 is expecting. I assume he means Jon getting elected Lord Commander. Their might not be enough time to do it in season 4 so we might see that in Season 5
jentario,
Brienne’s chapters made me groan everytime I saw the name at the top of the page, if only George knew that ADWD would be split in two anyway so there was no point in making aFfC seperate and inventing Nimble Dick material for it
I’m so ready for TWOW to be boom boom boom, there’s literally been two books worth of build up with no climax so I’m expecting it to feel like Breaking Bad season 5
Joh,
Episode 4: Michelle MacLaren
Episode 5: Michelle MacLaren
Episode 6: Alik Sakharov
Episode 7: Alik Sakharov
Episode 8: Alex Graves
Episode 9: Neil Marshall
Episode 10: Alex Graves
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Thank you so much!
I have enjoyed Michelle’s episodes in the past, I am glad to see her credited for tomorrow night.
patchface,
I really don’t see there being enough time for the first one to happen.
Katniss Baelish Everdeen is coming
Hodor’s Bastard,
It was my assumption, as many forums have that ability. It sounds outdated, now that I think about it, but not without its place. An email check may out an impersonator, but it sounds like a shoddy defense against abusive users of any stripe. I was surprised to learn that was the main verifying measure.
House Mormont,
D&D have admitted to hindsight minus the specifics. I’m sure there are quite a few things they would change if they could, but there’s no point in making those thoughts public. Just doing what they do demands their all, and some fans will never respect that fact, instead deferring to their own preconceptions of perfection. Blessed be the non-readers who love the show without the more limiting reservations afflicting the fandom.
House Mormont,
I hope Quaithe makes a return, for the sake of consistency. She would be a welcome injection of flavor for the Essos storyline. I just hope her costume reflects her unknowable nature next time. Aside from the mask, she came off as yet another eastern dignitary.
We Need a verified icon for Bryan Cogman haha
Ghost,
They could easily make it into a five minute scene if they wanted to. But will they? I honestly have no idea. It’s a good place to end that storyline.
WompWomp,
I was hoping she’d be in this year, but as prophecies aren’t really in the TV show, which isn’t really a bad thing tbh, I doubt she’ll be back
Since she’s been introduced however, they kind of need to bring her back just for the quality of the storytelling, we didn’t even get her name
“Watchers on the Wall” would have been better. The “The” is too much.
WompWomp,
I deleted my response because the event never happened (right?). :)
I also wish the Cogman would grace us with his presence more. I wonder what episodes he is writing/completing for S5 right now? Surely, the S5 writing is nearing completion at this time, right? I am waiting for GRRM to announce it, like he did last year at this time.
More Quaithe please. Let the Meereen tension begin!
House Mormont,
Yes! So much this! A lot of people think that removing elements and characters will make Meereen more interesting… It won’t! Fleshing those characters out and revealing things to the viewer that readers could only guess at the time WILL make it more interesting, though.
They should keep the Green Grace and the Shavepate, assuming the first is the Harpy and the second the poisoner. They could flesh out the Green Grace with a scene between her and Hizdahr revealing that she is the Harpy and he is her puppet. Also they can make it clear that the peace treaty was in her and Meereen’s benefit to make it more clear that the Harpy didn’t arrange the poisoning. They both aren’t huge roles that require a lot of screentime, but fleshing them impute would make Meereen a hundred times more interesting than just removing them.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I’m curious to see if Cogman get’s two episodes again next year, given that we’ve also got Dave Hill writing at least an episode.
House Mormont,
Not unlike the Reeds or Ice (the return of which was notably absent from Robb’s demands to the Lannisters in S2), I think the show will put off any mention of the prophecies until they are about to become necessary and relevant. I agree the show doesn’t suffer greatly for it. Maybe by the time they do come up, it’ll be a pleasant surprise for all.
Yeah, it would be a shame to drop her entirely. Come to think of it, she would have added a wonderful layer of mystery to Dany’s storyline S2 by appearing to her before she reached Qarth, and even after as she made her way around Slaver’s Bay. Dany could really use that through line to reinforce her greater arc. As much as folks love her badass Khaleesi moments, I’ve spoken to non-readers who see her conquests as a series of non-sequiturs. They feel like the show has forgotten her, in a way.
jentario,
Yes I think while it’s good for following the book it’s also good for the Unsullied too, even this season they’re complaining that they just don’t care about the Eastern stuff anymore, and keeping the Meereenese characters interesting with the mother of the harpy and an ambitious poisoner would draw in the audience in the same way that Kraznys and Missandei made Astapor have so much flavour, then add to that Dany sacrificing her dragons, her Westerosi ambitions (Quentyn) & her body (Hizdahr) in an emotional way and it’d be so gritty
Hodor’s Bastard,
Rewriting history? A dangerous game. [laughs] Either way, I have supplied a response above.
Oh, it’ll happen. Eventually. It can’t be long now.
I’d love more Quaithe, but no more Qartheen party girl Quaithe. That just grounded her in a way that sapped some of the mystery.
House Mormont,
Stop trying to make Meereen happen. It’s not going to happen.
cosca,
I am very curious about tomorrow’s episode, since BC stated that this was a challenging episode for him. His short interview that was released yesterday stated that an expanded version of the interview will be released after the episode airs.
(and btw, MEEREEN WILL HAPPEN!)
Arkash,
Agreed.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I think it was difficult because there’s several Dany scenes. He has said that he finds Dany the hardest character write for in the past, I believe.
cosca,
Meereen’s plot is better than King’s Landing’s though lets be real, I mean it’s pretty much just Cersei, Margaery and the High Septon that are interesting, and Margaery wasn’t even interesting in the books
Hodor’s Bastard,
any context on why it’s challenging?
90 minutes, huh?
Plot twist: Pepsi commercial.
House Mormont,
I’m sure we’ll find out. The interview (which others linked to yesterday) is here. More to come.
Yeah…as cosca said, I’m sure it’s a Dany plot thing.
House Mormont,
I think they can develop it into something interesting. Coming attractions such as Ser Robert Strong still strike me as ripe for onscreen adaptation, and the Cersei-Marg non-rivalry could be better played than it has been written. We have some great performers to look forward to, so I see a brighter future for that stretch of the series than the material we know.
House Mormont,
The problem with Meereen is the stupid names. I’ve read ADWD twice and I still have trouble differentiating some of the Skahaz’s and zo Kandaq’s, or whatever the hell their names were.
WompWomp,
They could also keep the Queen of Thorns around if they wanted, that might make things more interesting.
Old Valyria,
im sure littlefinger thought of bringing her some clothes for her to wear if he had planned out her escape… and if you remember littlefinger was going to take sansa much earlier, before she had to marry tyrion (ros found out about the two feathered beds)…stuff wouldve been ready for her
WompWomp,
I agree what little there is, is interesting, The burning of the tower at the hand at the wedding, Cersei gutting the city of all enemies, even Jaime, Cersei blindly allowing the faith militant to flower, sending “Meryn Trant” to seduce Margaery then kill Jon Snow, trying to take down Margaery but being taken down by the High Septon, that’s all good, but there’s a lot more interesting KLish character dynamics, plots, and intrigue in Meereen
Tyrion Pimpslap,
GRRM as Yezzan zo Qaggaz! It will be known!
WompWomp,
Agreed. But there was too much King’s Landing in AFFC. I think it should appear tops in 8 episodes, probably less to give more interesting stories a chance. We really don’t need so much King’s Landing screentime after Tyrion splits off. And when Jamie does too (early season 5, I think) we will have little to see there. There is a lot to cut from Cersei’s arc.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Hizdahr is the only Meereenese name we need, the Shavepate and the Green Grace are pretty memorable, goodbye Reznak mo Reznak, Skahaz mo Kendaq and Galazza Galare
Is there any way to make the show spoilers option permanent? Every time I refresh the page they’re blacked out again.
Ghost,
First it needs to actually work on mobile
Old Valyria,
We can just pretend Littlefinger had some copies of her fav clothes? Good catch but I wouldn’t let things like this bother you if it was a continuance mistake.
Ghost,
Yeah, it was good on the old version of the site when the spoilers were automaticaly un-blacked !
As for the Meereenese characters, I really hope we get the Green Grace. I think she, Hizdhar and at least one other nobleman at her court are necessary. Merging the Shavepate, the Seneschal and all the others in one.
Ghost,
New owners, new rules….arrrrgghh! (I assume it is not a bug).
Whatever happened to “New boss…same as the old boss…”? (name that song)
I also suggest backing up “longer” posts before posting…for they may disappear into the void…
But I like most of the articles though.
cosca,
That would certainly help. And speaking of the Tyrells, I really hope they do something to more than just suggest the martial prowess of Loras. I didn’t see it before, but he really has been drastically reduced.
House Mormont,
I was never particularly engrossed in the Meereenese plot, probably because it signaled the end of Dany’s desire to move beyond Essos for a time. In Qarth and Yunkai, there were more concrete goals to drive her story. She needed ships, she needed an army. With Meereen, Dany’s goals were more nebulous, and I found it hard to invest in the long list of exotic factions she had to manage. That said, that’s just my take on that portion of the series. I’m glad you found enjoyment in it. I do hope the show’s interpretation of those events wins me over.
jentario,
Agreed. Cersei’s arc veered into some groanworthy territory. What I’m really curious about is how they’ll handle Tyrion’s Essos arc.
Off Topic:
Had anyone else enjoyed Vikings season 2?
Now, of course, GoT is my fav show but Vikngs has been very good this season as well…
It’s weird because Vikings is on a cable channel, not a premium cable channel, yet it feels very more adult like even though they can not show nudity or an unlimited amount of gore.
With episodes like ‘Blood Eagle’ I felt totally mortified watching the scene unfolding in my living room. Oh wait, you have no idea what I’m talking about, let me give you a brief summary.
One of the Earls betrayed Ragnar, so Ragnar caught him and decided to give him a blood eagle as punishment. A blood eagle is when the prisoner kneels down and puts his hands on an alter and must stay knelt without screaming or flinching the whole time while the blood eagle is performed. 1st the remove the skin on both sides of his back/spine. The ribs are then exposed and they use a hatchet to crack down both ribs on either side of his spine (while he’s still kneeling there not screaming or flinching). Then Ragnar reaches into the ribs and pulls out each lung, placing each on the prisoners shoulder. Now the man is knelt down, not flinching or screaming with his ribs cracked open and lungs ripped out and placed on his shoulders…. He will stay knelt there until he dies and if he died well he will go to Valhalla…
No scene or episode in GoT is yet to give me that horrible feeling I had while watching this episode in Vikings… Just a FYI.
WompWomp,
Tyrion’s scares me because 1) the Dink requires a lot of screentime, being the star 2) The characters that are introduced need screentime and expansion since they’re very very important Illyrio, Aegon, JonCon, Moqorro but 3) it’s mostly pointless travelogue going between character group A to character group B but not actually getting anywhere
Strange that Dany will be holding court this season without any Meereeneese nobility (Green Grace, Shavepate). They could’ve easily fit in another 2 castings this season. Hizdahr, yeah, but he’s just seeking her audience, not an actual member of her court, I believe.
House Mormont,
I don’t think the showrunners are afraid of reducing his screentime. He certainly had a lot less in S3 than he did in S2, by my count.
Aye. Here’s to hoping for an effective reduction of said travelogues.
Arthur,
Haven’t seen a minute of the show, but I’m not surprised to hear about a show with less violence and sex having a strong impact. I very much felt that way about the CW’s Nikita, a network television show whose writers were encouraged to write as if they were working on a premium program, despite the obvious constraints that would later be applied to them. The plots were tight and the action was tighter, despite a limited amount of explicit bloodshed and not so much as a nipple winking at the camera. I do feel that GoT leans on the mature content crutch sometimes, more so than shows with more effective structures and overall storytelling. Even so, it’s still a singularly vast and rich series. Its achievements are significant despite a good number of tighter, more consistent productions.
Off topic: i have one question, maybe i didnt quite understand. am i right that in the brans visions the voice which says NORTH is maybe Stannis? I read first 3 books, so maybe i dont remember, or maybe im completely wrong. But would that mean that Bran and Stannis meet?
matt v,
It isn’t. They cast the Three-Eyed Crow, a wholly separate entity from Stannis.
matt v,
Well, that would be an interesting development.
THE season of THE articles.
matt v,
It’s material from the fifth book. The voice is from the 3 Eyed Crow/Raven, aka, Bloodraven.
Leo,
Theres way too much stuff this season that requires budget. I am fine with them casting those roles next season because I don’t want them to compromise the amazing battle sequences coming up. And lets face it, Season 5 is going to need some added excitement. I wouldn’t be surprised if LS shows up in the season 5 premier instead of the season 4 finale
WompWomp,
well Tyrion didn’t do anything in s3, other than be powerless and then get married, and he’s gonna spend a lot of time in a dungeon this season, yet he still had the most screentime of any character in s3 with 49minutes, so I’ll guess that that’s the bare minimum
When shows first show up on HBO’s schedule, they have a placeholder 57 minutes tied to it. For half hour shows the placeholder is 27 minutes.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
yea i understand that. But if you rewatch that scene, you would hear that the voice saying: look for me… is a bit different than the voice saying NORTH. the second voice does sound a lot like Stannis. or am i going crazy lol?
House Mormont,
I’m sure he’ll share his time in the limelight. [laughs] In the books and the show, he’s a bit of an institution. You’re right. It’s hard to imagine them dipping below that number.
Hodor’s Bastard,
We won’t Get Fooled Again. (But I think we did)
patchface,
How do you forget Tyrion killing Tywin!!
regarding the (hopefully) ending of season 4:
I really hope that we first meet Lady Stoneheart hanging a frey and not her meeting Brienne.
That would kinda ruin the whole reveal for me, because I want the first time meeting LS to be a holy shit moment, like it was in the books and not a drawn out scene where she is conversating with Brienne.
Imagine how awesome the scene would be ending with her face and the shadow of a twitching Frey, hung by the neck on het face
Saar,
Dude the entire Brienne scene would be a wtf moment, Catelyn’s dead face appearing under the hood, talking with a quiet sinister croak, then ordering Brienne to be hanged???? How’s that less wtf than a random Frey we’ve never seen
Patchy Face,
Patchy! “Who are you?” :)…I mean, how are you?
I always wanted to ask a WW what was “behind (those) blue eyes”…
Go Team Shireen!
WompWomp,
You should try to see some of Vikings. An enjoyable show and presumably historically accurate (as much as it can be) since it is presented by History Channel.
Arthur: I was also equally repulsed and riveted by the “Blood Eagle” episode. Love Travis Fimmel’s Ragnar!
WompWomp,
Yeah I think they can make Kings Landing FFC material way more interesting in the show than it was in the book. Instead of just Cersei’s side we can see Margaery’s and if they keep Olenna around we could see some Marg/ Olenna chats of them plotting and working out how to manipulate Tommen. I imagine Cersei’s penance walk will be used as the climax of the KL storyline and that should be pretty powerful and memorable.
I kinda used the wrong words to describe what I wanted to say (english isn’t my first language) I kinda mean that the hanging of a Frey would be a moment of redemption and a little revenge for the red wedding. I want unsullied to think and feel that Catelyn isn’t messing around and that she’s going after every Frey there is and that she’s not going to mercifull. I also want her reveal to be quick, not a drawn out scene, where everything is explained, how she came back to life etc. I just want that same moment as in the books where I was all astonished and excited to see her kick ass, and I don’t want her hanging Brienne when we first meet her, because unsullied will hate her for trying to kill Brienne.
I don’t know if I have made it more clear now, but nevertheless the reveal will be awesome :)
Regarding Dave Hill, I wonder if he has already completed his writing duties for GoT for S5? All the online articles I can find about him are about him being the co-writer of the upcoming “Merlin” movie for Warner Bros. Seems to be on the fast track with D&D’s influence/support. I’d like to know more about him and his thoughts/perspective (other than his history/lore DVD stuff).
Ashara D,
So many great shows to catch! I’m allowing myself GoT, but I have accumulated a backlog, including the last two seasons of Justified and Hannibal. Color me surprised that the History Channel has entered the fray.
wizardeyes,
A particularly promising fact: Lena has essentially committed to the scene. She’s aware of it, and cited that one of the reasons we don’t have any lascivious Cersei scenes is to make that particular scene all the more powerful.
Arthur,
That ending of the blood eagle episode is fucked..
WompWomp,
Yeah I remember hearing that she was aware of it and was fully committed to doing it. Should be one of the most talked about scenes of season 5 for sure.
Saar,
I was one of those overly optimistic goofballs that wanted the resurrection…or at least an account of it. (fingers still crossed) Oh well. One of the last “living” phrases Cat heard before she died was “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” I’m so stoked to hear what LS has in store for Jaime when Brienne takes him to her in TWoW. Is mercy even in the equation?
And yes, I know that in the show they changed it to “The Lannisters send their regards.” Could have an effect on the outcome though.
But Brienne meeting LS already in S4? That is rushing things but I guess it is not really antithetical to the storyline.
House Mormont,
Brienne can’t meet LS in the finale, because Jaime is still in King’s Landing freeing Tyrion from his jail cell. LS telling Brienne she must bring Jaime to her is the whole reason Brienne isn’t hanged. Jaime has to be in the Riverlands first.
Saar,
I agree. I think a cool way to end would be to have “Only Cat” fade to black as though the episode is over, and then a (pre-credits, of course, we don’t want anyone to miss) fade in to maybe Lame Lothar as the doomed Frey stand-in, since he’d be recognizable.
Just to have that contrast of LF wistfully mentioning Catelyn again, and we remember her and miss her. And then the ending. I think it would be amazing
I mean, to me this is looking like probably the best season finale yet.
I still think that theres too many titles beginning with “The”. I prefer the more simply titles eg Two Swords and Oathkeeper! Watchers on the walls sounds better than The Watchers on the walls.
Love that the final is 66 minutes, hate that episode 9 is 51 minutes!
Yeah…a heck of a lot to pack into that episode…
All out wildling/giant/mammoth assault from the north (oil and arrows!)
Biggest light the north has ever seen!
Maniacal wildling/Thenn siege from the south (lots of one-on-one fights)
Ygritte and Styr’s deaths. Tormund capture?
Mance-Jon treating
Mel lasertagging eagles
Stannis becomes the hero
Mance capture. Baby? Val?
Exciiiiited!
Noticing a bit of a trend where the episodes that contain major events are often shorter. Last seasons episode 9 was round about 51 minutes, this seasons episode 2 was 52 minutes and now we know that this seasons episode 9 is also 51 minutes. Was wondering if it was down to budget reasons but then remembered Blackwater was a pretty lengthy episode so it may well be just coincidence. Ah well, at least we have an extra long finale!
Count me in as another one who has really enjoyed the second season of Vikings. For something that’s budget must be really small at least when compared to GOT its fight scenes are surprisingly excellent and actually look pretty large in scale. The fact that Ragnar and Rollo are two of the most badass warrior characters on television certainly helps too. Cant recommend it enough for anyone yet to check it out.
Ideally, the last episode this season might open with Nymeria pulling something out of the water and Dondarian’s sacrifice. The end could be Lady Stoneheart meeting a Frey. These are key elements of the story!
Throw a bone to the female fans. We read the books and want to like the show. Small request: Stop inserting rape that isn’t canon. Thanks.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Isn’t the conflict at the Wall going to span multiple episodes, or was I just hearing things?
Joh,
Well said
House Mormont,
If I remember correctly she lonely interacted with Jorah in season 2. That might make it difficult if they want Dany to recognize her.
WompWomp,
That’s news to me, especially with the “new” NW-to-Crasters mission in the mix. I’m sure the wildlings/Thenns will cause more trouble south of the wall but they are waiting for that “biggest fire” that Mance promised. Will they do anything to CB before Mance gets to the Wall (via Thenn chaos)? Will that “big fire” happen before ep9? Perhaps…but I believe the heart of the battle/siege and Ygritte and Styr’s final moments will be under NM’s direction in ep9. Maybe ep8 will contain some siege stuff…but that could interfere with Tyrion’s trial-by-combat focus.
Arthur,
I found the ‘Blood Eagle’ scene on YouTube!
For those of you that have no idea what I’m talking about take a look. Now granted, this wasn’t the Red Wedding, we weren’t emotionally attached to this character. But what a brutal ceremony! I mean this episode still haunts me.
Just fast forward to about 36 minutes into the episode to watch this guy get his back flayed, ribs clipped open and lungs pulled out and placed on his shoulders while he just kneels there in silence so he can go to Valhalla.
The music and cinematography is brilliant and like I said, GoT has never made me and my family squirm and feel sick and so affected like this…
Go to 36mins in and watch the Blood Eagle.
http://youtu.be/QEtmtRCg5Rs
For some reason the music cuts out but even in silence you get the point.
Well that was unpleasant. Liked the snake and eagle though.
Arthur,
Haha, this is your idea of a family show?
That was a bit disappointing (the lack of sound). I feel like I missed out on the full effect. As is, though, that was a bit like the ending of Braveheart. Overall I’m just surprised the History Channel has come this far.
At first blush, what little I’ve seen of the show struck me as Sons of Anarchy with vikings. Looks like they have at least one cast member in common.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Its very very unpleasant!
I was routing for Ragnar to kill this guy but I didn’t want to see him die like that.
It just amazes me though because this is The History channel, yet HBO never came close to giving me that kind of experience before as far as horrified and just totally watching with my hand over my mouth.
Goes to show that just because you can show nudity and unlimited gore doesn’t mean you have to. Sometimes in these kind of primal scenes, less is more and if you use the right music and cinematography you can make a PG scene just as affective and an R rated scene.
I probably already talked about the blood eagle way to much, but last season in Vikings they also did an episode about their human sacrifice ceremony which also gave me an empty stomach after viewing.
WompWomp,
Yeah for some reason the sound cut off but it was just so people (like you) could get a sense of what I was talking about.
I am just trying to point out that that scene was cutting edge and very artistic and done quite beautifully (for the desired affect of sickening you).
I am yet to see a GoT scene like that. Yes GoT can be very brutal and gory but not a “slow burn” deeper than the surface level type of gore like that scene and several other Viking scenes have made me feel.
For instance, when someone burns at the stake… That is a long and horrible way to die that was usually set up to take many hours. Not just… PUFF “did you see their souls?”
Arthur,
Yeah…I actually didn’t find it that gory but it was very convincing and unnerving. WompWomp is right about the Braveheart and Sons of Anarchy references. When I get my time machine, I’m not visiting that particular time-space.
Eddard Stark’s Ghost,
I still think they will. If you noticed in episode 1, Sansa mentiones what they did to her mother’s body and she says they threw the body in the river like the books, but never seen. Also, Brienne will be on her way to find Arya with Podrick as well, plus they show us what the lord of light can do in season 3 by bringing back Beric to life.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I am so glad I didn’t live in the past, in a time period like that.
Chances would have been I would have been some commoner, some farmer or peasant. I probably would have been lucky to make it past childhood, even more lucky to make it past adolescence, and yet more lucky still to make it to adulthood…
Even then, I probably wouldn’t have lived to long, some disease would have got me, someone may have murdered me. Or I would have died is some stupid battle fighting for some asshole Lord I never even knew for some bullshit beef of his that means nothing to me.
Although now-a-days most of us are slaves to some business or cooperation, at least we have decent rights, great medicine and a much more advanced morality.
How did those people sleep at night?
Arthur,
Company Man, at your service! For some reason, I found your last post quite funny. Yes, humanity had to learn the hard way.
Ramsay would probably be considered quite well-adjusted in that Vikings environment.
Btw, I think you would enjoy the “Darth Vader Action Figure” sketch I just saw on SNL. :)
Arthur,
I squirmed and felt sick in season 1 Vikings when they sacrificed people at the temple. Throat cutting always makes me feel ill and if I anticipate a throat cut, I cover my eyes. In the Red Wedding I had to look away. I haven’t seen season 2 Vikings yet but now I am dreading this scene and will probably have to take drastic measures!
Lord Of The Waters,
Vikings is an fantastic show. Really wanna know who does some of their battle scenes. They seem like they could really have done a good job for some of the early battles in Season 1, such as whispering wood. Those battles were fought off screen, which I was kind of disappointed about. However, I feel like it all turned out well in the end.
The last few episode names are rather disappointing, but I am liking the fact that the finale is being given extra time :)
He last few episode titles are a bit disappointing, but I am happy that the finale is being given extra time as it will almost certainly need it :)
Arthur,
While it was a great scene, I think GoT would benefit from a different sort of cinematic intimacy. I speculate that one of the reasons this scene is so effective in Vikings is the show’s focus on that particular group of people and their culture. It serves as both spectacle and primer, depicting the gruesome fate of a traitor and the depths of belief that keep all the onlookers firmly planted around the ceremonial execution, silently bearing witness.
The closest analogue I can come up with at the moment is not Melisandre’s roasting of lords, but Ned’s execution of Will in the first episode, with his sons looking on. It’s a lesson for both Bran and the audience, and demonstrates the values of the characters.
Only Theon’s transformation calls for any such drawn-out depiction of violence on par with Blood Eagle, and while I understand Ramsay’s methods perturbed many viewers, we’re seeing the fruit of those chilling labors this season. I, for one, was very pleased with the pay-off in Two Swords despite my own previous discomfort. That shaving scene was brilliant.
What I would like to see more of is similarly wordless and informative shots in GoT. I feel the worldbuilding of the show suffers a bit by not giving the nameless and inanimate more attention. For example, we got a very brief look at what I assume was Balerion’s skull, but the camera zoomed in on it, not allowing us to wonder at its very existence before Arya had to hide inside it. Valyrian steel also gets short shrift when a few more quiet shots of the blades with a stray comment or two would hint at their worth and origins. The cold open this season was the first time in a while that the sword has even been acknowledged. Robb left the return of Ice out of his terms in S2, which was confounding. Literally a few seconds of setup would have hinted at Ice’s worth.
I also see the tourney as a missed opportunity. While the scale of the event was necessarily diminished, it was a great opportunity to fetishize chivalry and the trappings of knighthood before Gregor made his kill and shattered the illusion of it all. The show also does the setting an injustice whenever it denies characters their helms when they should be wearing them. I understand directors want to maximize the impact of the characters by keeping the actors’ faces exposed, but the objectification that occurs when a character dons a helm, be it friend or foe, is itself an affecting image.
I would love to see GoT explore softer narrative techniques. It is entirely possible to tell a story through objects as well as people. I have to say this is one area where Breaking Bad excelled in, but it certainly didn’t invent the notion, and its efficacy is not limited to that show. Less telling, more showing. That’s what I’d like to see from GoT.
Ser Tahu,
*The last. Dammit iphone.
As for Vikings, I am absolutely loving season 2. The particular sequence you guys are talking about was horrifyingly brilliant.
why is everyone guessing who’s voice was talking to bran… is it not clear that its the raven? why would it be stannis or anyone else’s voice? maybe I’m seeing something different… i don’t know.
House Mormont,
Honestly… That would suck. Unsullied viewers won’t understand what the fuck is going on. They would be to busy collecting the shards of their blown minds together to actually understand that Catelyn is about to hang her! It would be too much, way too much. That episode is already what-the-fucky. That scene is already what-the-fucky. To add Brienne’s hanging is just too much. And it also takes away the beauty from that reveal- people are supposed to be filled with hope and happiness at first, and only later get their dreams shattered. I think the best way to do this season is to end in Brienne witnessing the ASOS epilogue scene and the Stoneheart reveal. Then, the season 5 premiere would contain her trial and “hanging”, shattering people’s dreams much quicker than in the book. It also makes sense since it means mdama won’t have to wait a whole season for the Stoneheart payoff. But as I said, to go all the way this season would not be a good choice- bad pacing, bad reveal and way too much for non-readers to take in at once.
wizardeyes,
I still think it’s more of an early season 6 thing… It’s more of a beginning than an end, really. The end should be when everyone ditches her and only Qyburn remains, so she has him send her letter to Jamie. I think her capture by the High Sparrow (alongside other big moments) would make for a great episode 9.
Old Valyria,
Maybe Littlefinger had some things packed for Sansa, and carried them into the boat while the wedding happened. It’s the only plausible explanation.
Why are so many people freaking out or getting confused over this whole real Bryan cogman or fake Bryan cogman …. I am daenerys targaryen ,the mother of dragons , breaker of chains , screamer of “WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS” and formerly best known as khaleesi although this season I think they’ve dropped that … And I command you to forget this fake vs real cogman ordeal … And since I am Daenerys Targaryen ( not Emelia Clark) you should listen to me .
Ok on a serious note this is Sansa’s Knight and ppl need to chill
In my perfect finale the last 25 mins will be: Jon Snow named LC (refusing Stannis’ offer) > Arya leaves for braavos ‘valar morgules’ > only cat > t v t > bran and co meet BR > frey(s) killed by LS. I think they should have at least two freys (so their dialogue can reveal their purpose, rescuing a relative, and they should preferably be Lame Lothor and Black Walder from season 3 because they’re recognizable as freys by the general ordinance). Also I think it’s too early in the story for Brienne, pod (+ Ser Hyle Hunt?) to be ‘hung’ because Jaime will 100% still be in KL and probably will leave earliest episode 3 of s5 so their ‘hanging should be around episode 5 of season 5
jentario,
Maybe but I feel like the KL storyline would lack a strong finale without it. Cersei being arrested is surprising but it lacks the visual punch and epic scale of the penance walk.
HOPY,
Indeed.
Don’t know if anyone has posted this, and WiC better give me credit if they do! :)
Anyway, this is really cool. Houses of Westeros re-imagined as corporate brands in today’s world:
http://bit.ly/1iq0KK0
And I don’t understand why anyone would want to read episode details. I didn’t even know what episode the Purple Wedding would be, and it made it so much more surprising. But to each their own.
Long live the Brotherhood without Previews!
We need the Lady Stoneheart resurrection scene because it serves multiple purposes. Firstly it brings back Catelyn, as well as The Brotherhood without Banners including Thoros and Beric, and secondly it shows us that Arya can also Warg into Nymeria.
To just have Brienne suddenly stumble on LS would be a disservice to a truly awesome and mind-blowing scene. Can you imagine if Brienne just meets this person and Thoros gives us the details in a 4 minute long monologue? Oh God that would be awful.
Full scene please, and make it the final scene of Season 4.
wizardeyes,
I wouldn’t be surprised if the KL storyline goes beyond ADWD in season 5, we already have King Tommen, Cersei vs Margaery and Cersei + Qyburn established, it could feasibly happen midseason, and we can get the end to the astoryline that we never got in the books (the trial of two queens)
House Mormont,
There are too many storylines that deserve screentime for that to be a good decision.
jentario,
that’s true, but in the event of “theres only seven seasons so many things have been cut”, this would work
Matt,
Well, we already know from an interview that Maisie hasn’t done any warging. But maybe she was lying? If that scene doesn’t happen soon (as in, the next time we see Arya), it’s not happening ever. Catelyn’s body is probably splashing down at sea by now, and it would make much less sense with every passing episode. So in a sense, I don’t think we’ll see it. But what I do think is that there’ll be a LOT of set up for “Lady Stoneheart” through Brienne’s scenes. It would be really lame if she just shows up with no set up at all. It’s weird that they’ve decided to cut that warging scene… Should have been in the premiere IMO.
The Children should include:
– Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin. (Probability: 100%)
– Bran encountering the Children of the Forest (Probability: 90%)
– Daenerys’ being brought the bones of a child her dragons killed. (Probability: 80%)
– Littlefinger makes Lysa fly. (Probability: 75%, I think it might happen in Mockingbird?)
– Lady Stoneheart reveal. (Probability 65%)
– Stannis offering Winterfell to Jon. (Probability 70%, Of course in the early eps of S5 Jon would be elected LC)
– Arya leaves the Hound for dead and hops in a ship to Braavos.(She might even leave the Hound in Ep8/9 and just go to Braavos in Ep10) (Probability 90%)
– Rickon sighting (Probability 10%?)
tv works different to books though, it makes more sense to tease less, for bigger impact on audience
House Mormont,
Hmm maybe. Part of the reason I’m so excited to see season 5 is because its a real mystery as of yet how much ground its going to cover, what they’re going to use as finale etc etc. So far its been quite obvious (apart from the whole ‘will the PW be in season 3 debate?’. There are characters like Bran and Sansa who are quickly running out of published material. What are D&D going to do with them in season 5? Just adapt the published material and have them hardly appear? Invent new stuff for them to do? Or tap into unpublished material?
But as for KL in season 5 I think they will move through that stuff quite quickly because they’ve already established alot of the relevant stuff. In FFC we saw Cersei’s hatred of the Tyrells and Margaery grow but they’ve already established that very clearly in the show. She’s called Margaery a harlot, a whore, a bitch and has threatened to have her strangled in her sleep so we don’t need any more explaining of Cersei’s feelings towards her in season 5 so season 5 can concentrate on setting up new things like the Faith resurgence, the new High Septon and Cersei’s new small counsel. I wonder if they’ll keep Cersei having the previous (current) High Septon killed? I hope so because that adds another nice slice of irony because its his replacement that causes her downfall.
fixed
wizardeyes,
I agree, and I think it was Natalie Dormer who said it’d heat up even more this season, and if you remove Taena from the situation there’s not much that needs to happen. Just need the faith militant restored, and the Kingsguard availability secured, meaning Loras “out” and UnGregor in
Hollyoak,
It’s nice. We posted some of it on our tumblr a few weeks ago. :)
Rickon? Are you serious? Whats a “rickon”?
jentario,
“we know that Nat Tena appears in season 4, which of course means he will as well- though probably for no more than one scene)”
Do we know that? I haven’t heard any news regarding Nat Tena
I wasn’t aware Nat Tena was scheduled to appear in Season 4, jentario. Wonderful news!
Man, all my friends are out of town together this weekend. I couldn’t tag along with them because finals are coming up but at least I get to watch GoT live as usual… but… alone. ;_;
HBO reception here is pretty shoddy too because it’s one box split across a whole student housing apartment complex so my first viewings are always, like, VHS recording quality with occasional bad lip syncing, but I endure. Unbowed, fire and blood, roaring.
There was a video interview floating around (Flicks and the City?) where she obliquely referenced her return this season.
Argghh. Thanks. I’m not surprised you guys had the scoop. It needs its own post, though!
It’s implied here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ8Kto3wA-g
Ashara D,
Yeah! I love Vikings. It is beautifully shot. The story telling can be a bit off sometimes, in terms of character motivation… But in terms of creating the world… Its great! I love the acting. It has been historically changed a bit like Lagertha was not the real mom of Bjorn it was Aslaug who mothered him. Kind of a big change there. I believe Ragnar met Lagertha after he met Aslaug and Lagertha bore him two boys who later died in battle.
Back to THIS show though… Spoiler! ALERT! I feel like Lady S will not be in this season. I am thinking the “Children” Ep will have Tyrion (child of Tywin K.) That will be one awesome finally. I miss Quaith too. END SPOILER I tried to black this all out! I thought that’s what putting the <B meant???
I wish they would have more prophecy. It was a great way to give us some back story too, if they kept at least the prophecy true to the books.
Joan Català,
That would be a jam-packed finale, indeed. I wouldn’t blink, lest I miss something!
But as Jentario pointed out, the Drogon attack & subsequent “child bones” scenes would probably take place earlier, with the dragon roundup attempt in the finale. A Rickon/Osha/Shaggydog sighting would be nice (for continuity) but unless Locke receives inside info on his way to the wall and redirects his travel to Last Hearth, methinks an appearance by Rickon & Co is looking grim.
Thanks for the revisit with the ravishing Natalia and her incredible voice though!
Hooray, it’s Sunday bloody Sunday!
Do you guys think we’ll get this line from Arya to the Hound? I’m not so sure we get it as they seem to have a better relationship in the show than in the books.
“You don’t deserve the gift of mercy… You shouldn’t have hit me with an axe… You should have saved my mother.”
Turncloak,
I like the first two parts. They still fit quite well. I never understood why she would say that “mother” thing to the Hound…he couldn’t have prevented anything. Nevertheless, it will be quite an impactful scene though, as she lets him live with the pain…ending with her leaving him and going it alone. It is a moving moment that I have been waiting many years to see. Eps 8, 9 & 10 should be thrilling while having so many moments that tear at our heartstrings.
Btw, who thinks Davos will still be with Stannis/Mel & army as they save CB from Mance’s approach? Or will he leave before to pursue his own mission?
pleaaaaaaase I have a question , I am now in the middle of AFFC but I really want so bad to read Bran and Dany`s chepteres from ADWD , can I do both ? I mean reading book 4 with Bran and Dany`s chepteres at the same time or ist gona be confusing ? I don’t want to stard reading then facing something that I missed or I don’t understand ): those who read all 5 what do you think ?
Turncloak,
I definitely think that we will get that line, just slightly altered (no axe after all). She’s been speaking to him that way all along this season, criticizing him and baiting him.
“You shouldn’t have stolen silver from the farmer” could make a more relevant replacement of the axe.
loody,
Abso-frickin’-lutely! Imho, a more enjoyable read of both books is to follow the “unofficial” Boiled Leather order. Here is the link.
Enjoy!….and ignore the AFfC/ADwD naysayers!
I want t hear (I forget the actual lines ) “” a real wolf finish his prey “” “” maybe a real wolf will come to you at the night then you will know what wolf do to dogs “”
Hodor’s Bastard,
thank you sooooooo much^__^ may the others take who you hate
loody,
You’re welcome. Although The Others may take who they will, I don’t hate anyone here.
Hodor’s Bastard,
HBO really needs to rerelease the last 2 books but combine them in chronological order…
If they did that, I would buy them and read them again.
I don’t know why GRRM split them up like that, it was a really bad idea and hindered the strength of the books.
Arthur,
Especially from an e-book perspective, it would be easy. The “Boiled Leather” site is maintained by Sean Collins, the Rolling Stone GoT reviewer, and has regular contributions by Bryan Cogman (or at least it is his alias) as they debate particulars about the order of the chapters.
Hodor’s Bastard,
a joke (: , I am a new member here and a super fan I finished 4 books in short time , I love house stark (bran and ARYA and Jon the most ) and (tyrion and Jaime ) and house Martell ( the red viper ): + Ariane and the sand sankes ) and house targaryan though I don’t like Dany so much I wish Reaghar was still alive ): ,, I read 400 pages from affc but I can still follow the same order you gave me in the last link right ? thanks again ^__________^
loody,
Sometimes I wish I was experiencing the books for the first time too…as the series progresses. But I like the Sullied vantage point, I guess. I absolutely enjoy the infinite perspectives and interpretations from the fans (on Westeros and here and TotH sites) of each chapter in the book and each scene in the series. So much depth and variety (and cultural relevance).
Don’t give up hope regarding R. There is quite a heated debate about that. Read on! ;)
Hodor’s Bastard,
I will do that on my reread. I am now at ACOK but am purposefully reading slowly since my brother has borrowed ADWD and he will take a LONG time to read it. I need to somehow read ACOK and ASOS in half a year.
And ludi, I definitely understand your frustration. I had similar feelings when reading AFFC since the only one of my favorite POVs in there was Arya (hidden because maybe people don’t want to know which characters survive this season).
jentario,
House Mormont,
What about this for a rough outline?
King’s Landing in season 5
Episode 1 –
General aftermath of Tywin’s murder. Cersei is woken with the news, Jaime searches the tunnels. Everyone’s reactions. Cersei orders that Shae’s body be disposed of. Jaime/ Cersei scene. Cersei/ Tommen scene. Cersei also commands that word be sent to Kevan and asks for him to come to the Capital.
Episode 2 –
Kevan arrives and speaks with Cersei. He refuses to be Hand and they fall out – Kevan says he will leave after Tywin’s funeral. Jaime stands vigil over Tywin in the sept – Cersei comes to him to ask him to be Hand but he refuses her. Tywin’s funeral – Tommen balks at the smell and is comforted by Jaime. Tywin’s wake in throne room, Cersei is seated next to Mace and is annoyed when he presses for Margaery and Tommen to marry. She storms out and is confronted by Jaime who convinces her to let them wed so they can be rid of Mace Tyrell.
Episode 3 –
Cersei introduces Tommen to his new small counsel complete with Harys Swyft as Hand and Qyburn as Master of Whisperers. They discuss the new appointments and roles including that Jaime will take the Lannister army to the Riverlands to finish off the Stark rebellion. Jaime comes to her privately after to ask her not to send him away that he wants to stay with her and Tommen but she refuses him. Scene with Cersei and Osmund Kettleblack where she asks him to kill the High Septon, they sleep together.
Episode 4 –
Tommen and Margaery get married in a small ceremony and afterwards has the Tower of the Hand burned down. At the feast afterwards Cersei panicks when Tommen coughs. Jaime has the wedding on lockdown with top security. Jaime stands on guard during Tommen and Margaery’s wedding night. Osmund Kettleblack smothers the High Septon. Jaime says goodbye to Tommen then leaves with the Lannister army. Cersei sits the Iron Throne to receive a visitor – a representative of the Iron bank of Braavos who asks for the crown to repay their debts. Cersei refuses and sends him away.
Episode 5 –
Cersei visits the Sept to meet the new High Septon. She immediately dislikes him as he makes her wait while he finishes praying. She begins to plot how to get Tommen away from Margaery. Cersei panics when she sees Tommen practising sword fighting with Loras. Loras assures her they are tourney blades but she accuses him of endangering her son. Cersei announces the plan to reclaim Dragonstone for the crown in the hopes that Loras will offer to lead the army. Loras offers just as Cersei had hoped.
Episode 6 –
Loras leaves KL with his army to rapturous applause from the smallfolk. Cersei meets with Osmund Kettleblack and denies him sex. She gives him a task; to make a confession to the High Septon that he has slept with Margaery. She promises that she will allow him to take the black and when he does he is to kill the Lord Commander Jon Snow. When he does he will be allowed to return to KL and can then have sex with Cersei however and whenever he wants. Osmund goes to the sept and makes the confession.
Episode 7 –
Small council meeting where they discuss the news of Margaery’s imprisonment. Cersei feigns shock and surprise and vouches for her innocence. Qyburn reports that Mace Tyrell has heard and is returning to the city as quickly as he can. Cersei comforts Tommen and urges him to forget about Margaery – an idea that he passionately rejects to Cersei’s displeasure. The episode ends with scene of Cersei going to the sept to visit Margaery and then talking with the High Septon to reveals the tortured Osmund and then doesn’t allow Cersei to leave. She attempts to flee but is restrained.
Episode 8 –
Some scenes with Cersei in her cell where her initial rebelliousness turns to meekness and she offers to confess some sins so that she might have a visitor. She admits to sleeping with Osmund and is allowed a visitor. Qyburn visits and explains that he has been dismissed from the counsel and the realm is being ruled by Pycelle and Harys Swyft and they have sent word to Kevan to return to the capital. He tells her that Tommen is still King and that he is safe.
Episode 9 –
Cersei is visited by Kevan who tells her about Myrcella’s injury. He tells her that the only way she will be allowed to see Tommen is to complete a penance walk. At first she refuses but them changes her mind as she is desperate to be with Tommen. She tells Kevan to tell Qyburn that the time has come. She does the penance walk.
Episode 10 –
Cersei, Kevan and Tommen sup together – Cersei seems meek and defeated. Kevan then hosts a small counsel meeting with Mace Tyrell as Hand. They discuss the upcoming trials of the Queens and set things to rights. Afterwards Kevan and Pycelle are murdered by Varys.
Episode 11: Two Cogmans (Directed by Guillermo Del Toro)
wizardeyes,
In my humble opinion you’ve included a bunch of rather unnecessary scenes and characters while removing necessary ones…
-Whrere is Cersei sending people to Qyburn?
-What about the scene where she makes Pycelle confess to giving Margery moon tea?
-What about the news of Loras’s injury arriving to the capital?
-Why not have Cersei send Jamie the letter “please I love you, I Iove you, I love you come save my ass”? This is a very important point in both her and Jamie’s character development, as he simply chooses to burn the letter.
Then there’s Harys Swyft. I’d rather have Kevan be there from the start. Give him an extended role and have him clash horns with Cersei throughout. I think Lady Merrywheather is a much more important character than him, for instance, since she would be Cersei’s prime confidant- and she really does need someone to talk to freely throughout the season. You could even remove Kettleblack and have her bring the inside information to the High Sparrow (and get tortured).
Unnecessary scenes you mention:
–Overtime in King’s Landing. Scenes that aren’t absolutely important (such as random banter between Cersei and Tommen) have no place in season 5. They are covering the most part of two thick books, and the only way they could possibly fit everything you listed is if Dorne and the Iron Islands go caput.
-I was about to list the scenes but I can’t see spoilers on my phone. This is actually getting really annoying
That’s my two cents.
jentario,
Ah yeah those things you listed like sending the letter to Jaime I forgot – was doing it from memory – of course they need that scene. I would like more Kevan but I think the fact that he leaves to let Cersei rule alone is important. Cersei has to be given the reigns so that she can fuck everything up. If Kevan is there then he would stop her doing lots of those stupid things like allowing the faith to take up arms and turning away the Braavosi banker. As for characters like Harys Swyft – I know they’re not fascinating characters but they show a lot of Cersei’s psyche by the fact that she chooses weak-willed pushovers for her counsel so that she can easily control them. Maybe Cersei/ Tommen scenes aren’t that vital but they would help show how much she loves him which is the reason she does the penance walk. I would also like some new Jaime/ Tommen scenes because I just find that dynamic fascinating.
Well, I’ll say this for the discussion in KL in Season 5: however you shake it, I’m reminded that by trimming fat and sticking to Mad Cersei and the Fall of Night, if you will, it’s going to be a surprisingly great little story post-Tyrion. No longer will it be front-and-center left and right, but that’s only natural, and what will remain won’t suck like some may fear.
wizardeyes,
I understand the Tommen/Cersei scenes, it’s just the only less-important scenes I could remember from your post (being on mobile, I couldn’t read it again). Here is the actual list (I’m on the PC now):
– “Jaime searches the tunnels.”
– “the Tower of the Hand burned down.”- a lot of money for a scene that would have little impact on the rest of the story. I know it sets up the possibility of Cersei going all Aerys but we could do without it.
-“Osmund Kettleblack smothers the High Septon”- this can just be done in an offhand remark, we don’t need to see it
– “Cersei panics when she sees Tommen practising sword fighting with Loras. Loras assures her they are tourney blades but she accuses him of endangering her son.”- have Cersei want him dead since they’re engaged instead
In general, after season 4, I hope to see MUCH less of King’s Landing in season 5. It should be far from the most prominent storyline: which I think should go to Tyrion and -surprisingly- Stannis since they have the most ground to cover and the most interesting developments).
Arthur,
While it was a great scene, I think GoT would benefit from a different sort of cinematic intimacy. I speculate that one of the reasons this scene is so effective in Vikings is the show’s focus on that particular group of people and their culture. It serves as both spectacle and primer, depicting the gruesome fate of a traitor and the depths of belief that keep all the onlookers firmly planted around the ceremonial execution, silently bearing witness.
The closest analogue I can come up with at the moment is not Melisandre’s roasting of lords, but Ned’s execution of Will in the first episode, with his sons looking on. It’s a lesson for both Bran and the audience, and demonstrates the values of the characters.
Only Theon’s transformation calls for such a drawn-out depiction of violence on par with Blood Eagle, and while I understand Ramsay’s methods perturbed many viewers, we’re seeing the fruit of those chilling labors this season. I, for one, was very pleased with the pay-off in Two Swords despite my own previous discomfort. That shaving scene was brilliant.
What I would like to see more of is similarly wordless and informative shots in GoT. I feel the worldbuilding of the show suffers a bit by not giving the nameless and inanimate more attention. For example, we got a very brief look at what I assume was Balerion’s skull, but the camera zoomed in on it, not allowing us to wonder at its very existence before Arya had to hide inside it. Valyrian steel also gets short shrift when a few more quiet shots of the blades with a stray comment or two would hint at their worth and origins. The cold open this season was the first time in a while that the sword has even been acknowledged. Robb left the return of Ice out of his terms in S2, which was confounding. Literally a few seconds of setup would have hinted at Ice’s worth.
I also see the tourney as a missed opportunity. While the scale of the event was necessarily diminished, it was a great opportunity to fetishize chivalry and the trappings of knighthood before Gregor made his kill and shattered the illusion of it all. The show also does the setting an injustice whenever it denies characters their helms when they should be wearing them. I understand directors want to maximize the impact of the characters by keeping the actors’ faces exposed, but the objectification that occurs when a character dons a helm, be it friend or foe, is itself an affecting image.
I would love to see GoT explore softer narrative techniques. It is entirely possible to tell a story through objects as well as people. I have to say this is one area where Breaking Bad excelled in, but it certainly didn’t invent the notion, and its efficacy is not limited to that show. Less telling, more showing. That’s what I’d like to see from GoT.
Jeff O’Connor,
Cersei’s descent into deranged madness will be fun to witness! Rowan Atkinson for High Septon to add even more lunacy!
When HBO, was it HBO? announced before season 3 the episode run times would be longer I thought they meant breaking the ~one hour format by more than just 2 min. here, or nearly 5 min. there… I though like adding say 10 min per episode.
I don’t understand why movies of any length can be slotted in but HBO’s series have to conform to an ~ hour time slot.
jentario,
I agree with all of your suggestions EXCEPT burning down the tower of the hand, which I think is an essential demonstration of her decent into madness and of how totally devoid of any real leadership qualities. She’s a real reactionary
jentario,
Yeah fair enough. I didn’t mean that they had to show all that stuff – at least just let us know that its happening by being talked about or referenced.
patchface,
Let’s not forget the deaths of Shae and Tywin by Tyrion and most likely Sandor being left for dead by Arya and Arya running off to Essos
Isn’t there some way to give Admins and real members of the tv show cast and crew some kind of account that makes it clear they are the real deal so we don’t get toilets like that fake Cogman guy potentially scaring them away.
Think Brienne will meet her? I think it will be some Frey we’ll be introduced to later on, just because they have to established that Cat is now a stone cold killer.
Josh,
I think that Brienne will be the one LS is revealed to (otherwise her storyline would lack a good finale moment) and when Brienne and Pod are presented to her she is in the middle of hanging some Freys.
*Chills*
But as others have pointed out there will be the issue of Jaime’s location relative to that moment.
Also, will we have any declaration of the location of the Blackfish and Edmure at all this season? Along with the Rickon thread, we should have some attempt at continuity here…sometime this season, I hope!
Hodor’s Bastard,
I don’t see why people keep pushing this as an issue. So what if Jamie’s still in King’s Landing? Would that make Stoneheart not hang her? Would that make Stoneheart not want her to go get Jamie? Of course it’s all more conveniant when Jamie’s in King’s Landing, but the show has had far less conveniant changes in the past for the sakes of getting stories where they should be. Having Brienne witness the Frey hanging eliminates the long wait for Stoneheart (which was unnerving in AFFC) since it means next season begins with her trial an hanging (no 10 episode wait). Also, this frees up season 5 from Brienne’s journey (and Brienne would only have a few scenes in season 5 before reaching Jamie).
In some ways, this is just as conveniant a change as it is inconveniant, but condidering how far they’re going with Brienne and some interviews with Gwen, it seems very likely.
jentario,
Point taken. Personally, I found the Riverrun sequence (and especially the BF – Jaime bridge meeting) to be fascinating and full of amazing, revealing scenes. Plus, Jaime is within easy reach of the BwB while he is in the Riverlands, so it was logical for LS’s new recruit to grab him. But I guess it could be reworked though. I disliked that Brienne was relegated to a few measly paragraphs in ADwD, just to retrieve Jaime.
Brienne witnessing the Frey hanging would be awesome indeed.
Where the hell is BF in the show AND in the books???
Greatness Arrisessss,
Maybe you added the previusly time?
And always is great see Corgman or their impersonators here in the comments. Great job, and keep writing magic! #7seasonsandamovie!!!
Arthur,
I noticed in thie latest episode of Vikings they used some of the helmets from Stannis’s men in the battle scene.
Doesn’t surprise as both films are shot in Ireland.
Had hoped the title would be Kinslayer. With both the Lysa/Sansa, Balon/Euron and Kings Landing dramas squeezed in the same episode.
Guess the odds of a surprise Euron appearance is reduced from slim to none.
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