Jaime Sweet -

It's good to see you on here too. I defend Luke as I would defend every player who wears the Forum Blue and Gold. Each one has something to bring to the table, and only those with a perfectly circular and insular worldview cannot understand that.

How's your afternoon going?

Cali

your post reminds me of the "Stay in School" campaign.

1. "but I am one who can clearly see the value that Luke brings as a player. There are quite a number of instances where he has shown his value to the team (one of them being his career high hear in 2006-7)"

2. "I'm sober-minded (as you put it), and there are plenty of other sober-minded people who can understand Luke's value to the team. Again, your claims about his improvement are patently false (please look at his career at this website: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltolu01.html). You could also look up points-per-possession on 82games.com for units with him in and with him not in them. "

3. "So the next time you decide to rant about Luke, please know that having evidence to back your claims would be fantastic - statistics would be a good start. That way, you can start to reach the potential that you have as a critical thinker. "

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now this will be really FUN. without any "critical thinking"

1. "(one of them being his career high hear in 2006-7)"

whowwwwwww. in 2006/2007 we had LO, who K Bros considered the real franchise player of the team, and the MVP, we also had Kobe, just a modest player and yes, the 3rd best player on the team was LUKE. who else was on the roaster? smushcalade, cakecalade and cookiecalade. IMPRESSIVE. (do i have to add anything to your logic and especially REFERENCE?)

EXPERIMENT FAILED

2. "You could also look up points-per-possession on 82games.com for units with him in and with him not in them."

indeed, another IMPRESSIVE REFERENCE. as you said, "start with statistics".

let's see:
lakers r a winning franchise.
the team blows out, beats or wins most of the games against elite teams (a few), a few solid teams and mostly against losing teams.
for the past 2 years, LUKE was part of the SCRUBS lineup.
the Lakers scrubs played against SCRUB TEAM's SCRUBS
we don't know, it's not scientific but can we make the "assumption" that the LAKERS SCRUBS r better than the OPPOSING TEAM's SCRUBS?

can we also make the assumption that when the Lakers r already up by 15-20 and the LAKERS SCRUBS enter the court, the OTHER TEAM SCRUBS are already DEJECTED and DEPRESSED.
it's not scientific, but human nature.
also, that the OTHER TEAM's SCRUBS, after losing night in and out, they kinda play like "walking pieces of cardboard" without putting any pride or effort in their play.
science says NO. game tapes says YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

so in which CONTEXT –"units with LUKE in and with LUKE not in them" –made up those MAGIC numbers that 82.com makes LUKE the second coming? (they don't mention who LUKE played against do they? like the Warriors who had like 4-5 D-Fender players because all the team was injured)

WRONG MODEL.

3. "So the next time you decide to rant about Luke, please know that having evidence to back your claims would be fantastic - statistics would be a good start"

see statistics above

So the next time you decide to support Luke, please know that having evidence to back your claims would be fantastic - statistics ARE NOT a good start

THE OPERATION WAS SUCCESSFUL, THE PATIENT DIED.

------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION:

how about a dose of reality:

last time LUKE was on the court it was against the CELTICS

a. he was alone, because NO COACH, especially THIBAUDEAU, respects any of his game.
b. he was blocked on penetrations
c. he missed shots even if the defender was at least 5 feet away from him. no hands in HIS FACE.
d. his high BB IQ and "GLUE" was worthless because the CELTICS knew that LUKE KNOWS THE TRIANGLE AND he is playing it BY THE BOOK.

but taking away the passing lanes, it was not BY THE BOOK. it was by the PUKE. they victimized him, letting the Lakers to play 4 on 5. and FINALLY, even his biggest supporter PJ, took him out.

and PJ never inserted him again. NEVER. regardless of the scientific, logic and statistics of 82games.com

i think PJ read the "THE LOGIC BOOK" (if Luke sucks so badly now, why try it again?????????) and his "GORILLA EXPERIMENT" did not work.

all this LUKE CHARADE is a cover up for one of the worst contract in NBA history (as length) that a team can't shake up. with all the brilliant statistics and his high IQ, NO TEAM in the NBA will trade for him

aren't u surprised that the Lakers don't even try to trade him?

can u believe this headline on the BSPN, Yahoo or NBA:

"LAKERS LOOK TO TRADE LUKE WALTON"

it will be the laughing stock for months.

they tried to trade LO, Farmar did not work for 2 years, they even tried sasha. did not work. they don't even BOTHER to try LUKE.
there is no word in the dictionary that can express the magnitude of this FAILURE.
there is no LOGIC BOOK that any GM can read to be persuaded to take him.
no one wants a "GORILLA EXPERIMENT".
teams went even for RAD, for Cookie, at least they were "potential" 3 point specialists.
not for LUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so CALI: stay in school and defend your critical thinking.

it is not necessary on the basketball court. and neither for basketball fans. there is no need to finish even HIGH SCHOOL to understand that LUKE is: nothing, zip, zilch, iota, nix, squat, diddlys$$$, goose egg, bubkes and ending with PFFFT (just sampled the end from an arthur danto article about text in paintings)

but because u sincerely believe in LUKE like "other sober-minded fans" (ohhhhhh sobriety, how dangerous), maybe you can write your dissertation on the subject, something like:

"Luke Walton, the last underrated, underestimated dandy and the spleen of Venice beach; logic in the age of speed, athleticism, dunkin', dress code and zebra taunting"

maybe u can ask Bill Walton to be your committee's chair. i'm sure he read the LOGIC BOOK.
ohhhh no, he has no logic in his comments. he CONTRADICTS himself from one liner to the other. but he is passionate about it. is LUKE passionate about it? i don't think so.

maybe he's an introvert. or intro-vert. (vert-french for green)

@humanomaly - I like Star Trek references pretty much anywhere (except in the boudoir, shouting 'Engage!' in the heat of the moment is a sure-fire way to wake up alone).

@Cali - My afternoon is going well, thank you, the rain cheers me up and I like driving in it...just not with other people. My only explanation for how southern Californians react to rain is...they're just not very used to it. I agree with you in regards to even the supposed dredges of our roster, they all bring something unique to the team.

Can we just stop with the 'waive Luke/Sasha/whatever player has drawn your ire on the Lakers. When a team waives a player they are still on the hook for his full salary. Luxury tax, too. The Lakers will not save one single penny by waiving a player who has a guaranteed contract. Otheriwse you would see shoddy NBA players dropping like flies.

So please, please, for the sake of all of our collective sanity, come up with something slightly more compelling than 'waive Luke' because it solves nothing. If anything it really takes away from our depth.

GO LAKERS!!!!!

sup ouchhhhhhhh

OMG - I can't believe I forgot french kiss.

Tells you how long it's been.... ok - maybe TMI here....

LOL!!!!

Earvin's on his way to buying something. Just not sure why all the smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: htj | October 19, 2010 at 04:04 PM
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more T-Cells for his wife Cookie?

I know Magic is / has been a successful business man.

But - do you guys think he'd be a good team owner?

I don't know...

justa - i hear you...Magic was a bust as a head coach...

Jamie - shouting 'Engage!' in the heat of the moment is a sure-fire way to wake up alone). OMG - I slobbered all over my cigarette laughing so hare...

Enough of the Luke debate...we have so much to look forward to...Like another glimpse of our boys tonight...

Here is a reflection of my feeling...If this doesn't get you in game time mode...don't know what will...crank it up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8ABAkQcfk

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up...

If Jim Healy were alive he would have already broken the story. ISSSS IT TRUE????......whaaaaaaat former Laker basketball star is set to buy the LA Dodgers!?

lew????

cigarette????

those things will kill you man - you got a family to worry about...

opps...justa you weren't suppose to see that...

Don't do it, Lew, I know you're tempted.

Also, justa's right, cigareetes are bad, too.

justa: Magic can't be a worse owner than the McCourts! lol...

- - -

Was I the only one that liked 'The Magic Hour' I guess I was too huge a Magic fan not to like it. However, not even I could justify the coaching job he did. I think even HE realized and figured he wasn't exactly coaching material. The all-time greats rarely are. Seems like it's the scrappy players/the overacheivers/the grinders that make the best coaches.

That is what makes Jerry West so special and unique. He was an all-time great player, a pretty good coach (leading a Laker squad with some holes on the roster to the playoffs every year he coached the squad) and possibly a better executive and GM than a player (and THAT is saying something!).

Magic though is showing that he might be as good a businessman than West was an executive. Quite a legacy of Laker greats do we have, on and off the court!

GO LAKERS!!!!!

It is painfully obvious why "Magic" Johnson is liquidating his holdings!

The "Axis of Tax U.S." (Obama, Reid and Pelosi) has stuck. Between the rise in various Federal income taxes, after 1 January (a "Millionaires Tax," a new "Medicare Tax," etc.) and the cost to do business, (especially with Obummer-Care and the minimum wage) it's time to cash-out while he's ahead.

Stephen M. -

Since when did this turn into a political blog? Just out of curiosity, have you read The Economist?

If it's "painfully obvious" to you, then you sure have all the L.A. Times journalists whipped. Which is quite interesting, given the fact that Magic hasn't said much about it right now.

Thanks for the insight.

It is painfully obvious why "Magic" Johnson is liquidating his holdings!

The "Axis of Tax U.S." (Obama, Reid and Pelosi) has stuck. Between the rise in various Federal income taxes, after 1 January (a "Millionaires Tax," a new "Medicare Tax," etc.) and the cost to do business, (especially with Obummer-Care and the minimum wage) it's time to cash-out while he's ahead.

Posted by: Steven M. | October 19, 2010 at 04:57 PM
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What part of that is suppose to be painful? The man millions while playing a game and sleeping with tons of women. Now I'm to feel sorry because he is being taxed. Steve M you are a clown.

I beg to differ Activator...

AndTheJellosJigglin is a Freakin Incredible name/handle...

TRUE Laker fans would appreciate and get it...

He honors not only the great Chick Hearn, but show his cleverness in choosing his handle...

And I agree with ATJJ...you have made your opinion very clear about 3 threads ago...enough already...don't be a bummer on game night...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up...

Lewstrs........How in the heck do you remember all the personal things about the bloggers for the bus? I must say I'm impressed with your recollection!!!!!!!!!! I thought we were going to get the Laker's on NBA TV and the Clippers are on there. Whoopie! I don't think their on KCAL either.

KobeMVP888

and because pfunk mentioned that most "journalists" r by standers, and r not asking "direct" questions, maybe we should ask MM to ask Kupcake, how Luke's contract looks on his CV. or maybe it is not even mentioned. u know those corporate tips, about leaving out the worst moments of ones career.

Cyber -

Check out my team from the draft...I was hindered with terrible positions on my picks, especially #9 in the first round...Of course MM had #1 pick which he used on Durant...and Blitz actually got Kobe even at #5 pick...

Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Rajon Rondo
Lamar Odom
Brandon Jennings
Ron Artest
John Salmons
Steve Blake
Wilson Chandler
Steve Blake
Ronnie Brewer
Jordan Farmar
Kirk Hinrich

LRob - got tons of guards...need another center...I know you got tons of bigs...let's make a deal...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Cosmix-

Rashard Lewis is grossly overpaid, but at least he contributes most games. His contract is more like LO's last deal where he made 15 million while still disappearing in critical moments. Sums up Rashard pretty well.

Luke's deal is more of a stinker because of it's length and Luke's injuries. The 6 years has got to be the thing making most of us cringe. The best thing about it is it seems to have taught Mitch a very valuable lesson in never giving long term deals to anyone with no long term track record of contributing or injury history. I guess there is a silver lining in Luke's deal after all.

the Activator: Mbe u can save the shorthand & L337 speak 4 other blogs, plz.

I think that we've moved on past 2007, we can stop calling Mitch 'Kupcake'. He has proven he does have what it takes to build a winner. He just pulled two gems out of late draft positions, reloaded the team in grand fashion, and the entire core is signed for 3 more years. Heck, the Lakers are coming off three-straight finals appearances!

So, can't we drop the Kupcake reference and give the man his due!

GO LAKERS!!!!!

MexicoLakerLL - I have to give credit where credit is due...

Mamba24 came up with most of the designations...

But it was your idea about the 'Opening Night Bus'...

So we all contribute in our own ways...That's why this is...

THE MOTHER OF ALL LAKER BLOGS...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up...

Lew,

I don't know WHY you got Bynum that early considering he is splitting time with Pau and Lamar not to mention he is at most 15ppg and 8 rpg and still hasn't put a valiant blocking effort since 07-08. Plus unlike Gasol he doesn't put up assist numbers which are double of points.

Rondo was still a reach in the middle first round.

Odom like Bynum suffers from the rotation of the Lakers (and the fact that Bryant and Gasol are the most productive players).

The real gem are Marc Gasol and Brandon Jennings though Jennings has a FG% like Allen Iverson so that will bring down his production.

I only drafted Kobe btw because it was either him or Chris Paul and while Paul has a superior steal numbers and more assists than Kobe injury concerns AND the fact he's no longer in a high octane offense like Bryon Scott's and in a new offense made Kobe the safer choice if a less higher ceiling.

Still your choices puzzle me. Not that I"m complaining. I'm going to be smacking you with my line up in Week 1.

CCX-

The pro and anti Luke camps will always agree the contract length sucks. I can remember when it was announced. I thought to myself, "Oh, that's interesting. I thought Mitch would at least let him test the market . . . " But I figured Dr. Buss would've signed off on it, and they've got to know more than I did.

Luke has a decent BBall IQ, but it can't consistently make up for his lack of mobility and leaping ability. Two things you also cannot teach. Throw in a few injuries, and they've really made Luke into a liability on both ends of the court.

I'll give you that Luke is a good passer, but an over eager one. He'll do just about anything he can to not shoot the ball, which is a positive since he's not generally that good at it. The negative is that opposing defenses know that too.

Bottom line for me is that the Lakers would be better off without Luke and his contract. If the CBA rules would allow it, the Lakers would have dumped his deal two years ago. If we still had an Allen Houston amnesty rule available, I wouldn't be shocked to see the Lakers use it on Luke. But we're stuck with him. He's ours since he wasn't gracious enough to take an injury retirement, still get his money, and save the Lakers around 30 million in salary and luxury taxes.

I think the team, overall, would be better off without Luke AND the his contract. I'm pretty sure Mitch and Dr. Buss would dump it if they could.

How many NBA Finals has your team been to in that time span? Just curious.

Posted by: KobeMVP888 | October 19, 2010 at 05:02 PM

my team was in the finals in the past three years and won 2 championships. IN SPITE of Luke's NON-contributions.

Posted by: the Activator | October 19, 2010 at 05:15 PM
====

What do you know. We have a resident poser! ROFLMAO!!!

Damn, I didn't know HIV drugs were that expensive!

buy the Dodgers magic!!!!

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

htj - by the way...I think Odom's #7 is the next jersey I will be buying...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

MVP888-

When did I ever say I was enamored with Barnes? He's certainly an upgrade physically over Luke, but who knows if he picks up the triangle to garner any serious run from PJ.

And you always bring up the championships, and just give that noise a rest already. There are scrubs on every championship squad just not many of them have 6 year, 30+ million dollar deals. And having Luke on Pierce in the '08 finaly certainly didn't hurt Pierce's killing us night in, night out.

Luke doesn't belong on the squad at this point. I'd hoped he had an ounce of shame in that enormous brain of his and he'd just hang it up, ending the debate once and for all. For every ally oop pass or other respectable play Luke makes, he gets beat on D, swatted going to the hole, or turns it over in a desperate attempt to pass so as not to get swatted going to the hole.

To me Luke's overall presentation is just garbage. Yes he can pass OK, but any decent defensive minded team already knows to play him for the pass. He can barely walk at this point, much less do anything quickly or jump over a shoebox. Leave him on the bench, have him tutor the young kids in practice, but don't sell me that he's a worthy in-game contributor. It's at best a zero-sum gain, but usually a losing proposition.

And yes, we won the championship with Luke. And Morrison. And Powell. And Mbenga. So what? Keep bringing that up, it makes your points stronger each time you use it.

Is it so awful that I bleed the forum blue and gold and hate to see money wasted on Luke when it could be spent elsewhere on some actual talent?

I think the team, overall, would be better off without Luke AND the his contract. I'm pretty sure Mitch and Dr. Buss would dump it if they could.

Posted by: htj | October 19, 2010 at 05:51 PM
=====

Well, we had a 6 million dollar player wearing street clothes in the playoffs last season, so if Phil Jackson feels that Luke can't play effectively anymore, Luke will be wearing street clothes, too. Luke may not even make it through the season physically, which would force him to retire. The Lakers would be stuck with his salary this season and then Luke's insurance policy would kick in for the balance of his contract and he would be off the books for next season. I'm sure that's what all the unappreciative bashers are hoping for.

What exactly is Magic up to?
-
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
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Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrrow... Lakers Forever.
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GO LAKERS!!!

htj: The Luke contract has become the only albatross around Mitch's neck - since Sasha's expiring one is now a trade-able commodity. I think that even those that side with Luke can see that $5-million a year for a player that regrettably is largely injured is not a good thing, especially when there is 3 years left on his deal.

You made a very good point in saying that Luke is an overeager passer, that is true a lot. That is also the biggest fault that I personally have with his game, he needs to do more to keep defenders honest and keep them on him. There was a time when he was really doing well with his shooting, but that is several years ago as I recall. It's been sporadic since then, probably since it's hard to get into a rhythm when you only play short periods of time before re-injuring yourself.

Everyone can agree that the Lakers are 'stuck' with Luke for the foreseeable future - no team wants damaged goods. In hindsight, I'm sure Mitch would have done things differently.

However, Luke is a terrific character guy, was never brought in for his athleticism, but for his heady, smart play. He fulfilled a role as spot-starter or facilitator on the 2nd team very well, and barring injuries he'd be in the regular rotation. He's just a nice 5th man on the floor to have, a glue guy.

I recognize he's not an all-star. He's a lot closer to the end of the bench than the top of it. He's a guy that at this point in his career will probably only be seeing second team minutes when healthy. But - lack of athleticism and scoring ability aside - when he is in the game the offense usually does run more effectively and guys seem to really like to play with him.

I appreciate that you are making smart and level headed arguments though, and making sense.

I'm sure that we all can agree that he is a quality person and hopefully can remain healthy.

GO LAKERS!!!!!

maybe magic is clearing room so he can a part of a group with an interest in purchasing the dodgers....

It would be great if Magic were to buy the Dodgers, but somehow it doesn't seem possible.

I am so jealous that he was allowed to get in on Starbucks early on and up until the going was good. I think it's smart of him to sell now.

STONER THOUGHT... how bout buying the dodgers from THEM?

Magic is putting himself in position to head up a group of investors to purchase the Dodgers. Maybe. Check it out.

Magic wants to get an NFL team here in LA. He has been successful on bothe NBA and Commercial business, so I think that he is trying to get an NFL Team here in LA. I hope he does.

I hope these financial decisions are not because of health issues for Magic. He is an HIV survivor. Hoping for the best.

I believe I've stumbled upon the true laker fans! Hi everyone!!

Luke sucks. stop acting like he doesn't. he is injury-prone, which hurts the team. BUT he has had some great moments. I only read halfway down cause I have to work, but did anyone mention his standout performance against the Pistons in 2004 Finals? Were it not for Luke, the Lakers would have been swept. To show that kind of potential in what I believe was his second season, under intense pressure, was amazing. Since that time, he has been a disappointment. I say trade him for whatever we can get. A second round pick? whatever.

Magic is a sellout. You don't sell interest in the Lakers. You jsut don't period. I loved him as a player, but he is challenging me increasingly to reevaluate. Let's face it, the whole aids thing was sad from Magic's perspective, but as a Laker fan, it hurt the team. I thought he actually quit too early as a coach. His talk show was an embarrasment. His comments about Laker players often sounds like he never lost a game or had a bad night. I would have tolerated all of that until he sold his 4.5% Unforgiveable.

GO LAKERS!!

PS I don't want BShaw as my head coach next year. I want Byron Scott.

I'm very excited about this...

LA and So Cal get ready for the Los Angeles Jaguars of the National Football League!

Or the Los Angeles Magic, perhaps?