Uproar at fish cruelty on YouTube

"I'm absolutly disgusted in this. I am speechless.


"

"Youtube has alot of videos of fish being fed live food or fighting, the video of the pierced oscars was also posted on another fish keeping site (cichlid-forum) and thankfully all the people thought it was cruel and totally unacceptable.

I wouldnt feed live food, just because I dont find the idea appealing, and I certainly wouldnt feed a mouse, that would be in horrendous pain been teared apart."

"these people are sick!"

"I went to look on YouTube and found loads more of similar video clips. Firstly I'm shocked that such deliberate animal cruelty is legal and I'm even more shocked that YouTube have decided that the videos make suitable content for their site.

You couldn't publish my real thoughts about the people who make these films."

"Those cruel, sick people need to go and see a good psychiatrist and they should be prosecuted.

I have just watched this video and on the youtube.com comments below the video some people are actually supporting this cruel practice of feeding live mice to piranha and on the video of the oscars people are also supporting piercing fish with studs.

How can those so call 'fishkeepers' live with themselves every day of the year. If you ask me they're all cuckoo!"

"According to the code of conduct for users of Youtube you are not allowed to post videos with illegal content, including animal abuse. Technically speaking I would generally put feeding a mouse to pirahna into the cruelty to animals section. I think it's about time Youtube staff woke up and did something about it!"

"There is a clip on one of the other large video sites showing a large fish being deep fried alive, it is then placed on a plate still gasping! This has been promoted as funny by FHM magazine via there email! I will not buy there mag again.
"

"I am pleased to see you have not shown the clips of live goldfish being fed to marine fish and piranhas , perhaps it is time to stop using you tube clips on the PFK site ? I really do not want to be linked to this sort of thing "

"I think it's disgusting, I'm not against live food but I think only food that can be swallowed in one gulp is appropriate.

The fish piercing is just beyond sanity.

I've also seen the video of the fish that was de-scaled, sliced up & fried whilst alive as well as countless others of fish torture.

Youtube and other video sites just show how vast and accepted fish torture is. It just goes to show that alot of people seem to think fish don't have the same rights as other living creatures."

"YouTube deliberately stays away from accepting responsibility for videos on its site. This allows a lot of *good* videos to be posted that would sometimes be considered inapprorpiate or infringe intellectual rights.

However, they will hopefully remove anything like this if people do complain (or mark as inappropriate).

That's one of the problems with giving people freedom - some will always abuse it."

"You want to know what's disturbing? The fact that a whole bunch of you saw the two videos here and thought it would be a good idea to search for more of the same!

If you went off and actively searched for more videos of fish cruelty, then you're basically the reason people keep putting videos like this on YouTube: because people will watch them and have an emotional reaction.

If you don't like it, don't watch it."

"Pardon? It just so happens that I DON'T go searching for videos on fish cruelty.
"

"I wasn't talking about you, mate."

"He, He, so sorry! just so upset after seeing that mouse being devoured by a shoal of piranha."

"Just to make it clear, I didn't see these and go looking for other's, I've seen the piercing one and the other one I mentioned posted on a fish forum. I never look on youtube or any other video sites apart from when people post links to them.

I think it's very wrong of you to jump to conclusions, only one of these comments could wrongly insinuate the person looked for other's and I doubt even they did it for the sake of it, they probably stumbled across them.

I appreciate that your post was probably based on anger at the people who make these videos but you shouldn't assume that people who have seen alot of them are actively searching for this sort of thing."

""I'm absolutly disgusted in this. I am speechless.your tube should be closed down its sick"

"I hope you are not suggesting that I looked up such material ? I know of these images as I am a fellow of the Zoological society and a moderator on the PFK forum I doubt anyone here has looked for any such material "

"get these people and stick spikes through their necks, then put them in a giant tank full of hungry crocs, see how they like being on the receiving end. oh ! , and get their mates to film it on their mobile phones."

"that left me speach less. the owners should be shot
"

"good god what or people coming to this makes me feel sick"

"I keep Piranhas both pygocentrus and serrasulmus species but never feed live food as they are in an aquarium and fed by me and not having to hunt for it.
When I see vids like this on forums I choose not to watch. People keep Piranha and other predatory fish just to feed them live animals etc rather than what they are, a beautiful looking fish (IMO!).
Are mice a part of their diet? Don't think so! So why do it?
I'm a mod of a uk piranha site and we never recommend anybody to feed live food and act as responsible fish keepers."

"Those mentally sick people who do things like this should be hunted down and given community service, its just not acceptable."

"Well, what can I say? I am utterly disgusted! And that is an understatement. I never imagined YouTube would put something like this on their site.

I thought that "Python Trek" (in the comedy section) made me laugh. This just makes me boak!

What a sick society we live in. Next thing you know, they'll be showing videos of guppies being eaten like whitebait or something else as rancid.

Can someone not get this putrid stuff removed? Furthermore, does the artist in the song know their music is being used in videos like this? They should sue!"

"I hope everyone reading this realizes that while I don't keep any of the types of fishes, and that if I did I wouldn't feed them mice or similar things. But I must take the opposite opinion of all of you.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. People should be free to express themselves, producing the video doesn't hurt anyone.

How is it different to feed a mouse to a snake that either injects it with poison or squeezes it to death, then it is to feed it to a school of piranha? Piranha will eat rodents, birds, and other things that enter their over crowded pools, during certain times of the year, in the wild.

Just because an animal is "cute", doesn't make it cruel to use it as nutritive food for your animals! Do you ever feed Brine Shimp? Whiteworms? Beetles? Or anything similar? Aren't they being eaten alive, and torn apart, by the fish that eat them?

There have been Greenland Sharks found with entire Cariboo (Reindeer in Europe), in there guts. Lets face it, preditors eat prey.

If you keep predators, and don't feed them prey, (live foods) aren't you actually being cruel to the predator by not allowing it to what comes naturally to it?

Again, I also find the video's, of live animals being eaten, disturbing, but it is a part of the natural order of things. Unless you only where cotton, and are a vegen, you are just as guilty as those fish. Remember that steak you had for dinner, once was part of a "cute" cow.
"

"The fact is that feeding live fish to other fish is not illegal in the States and also if I remember you could buy live mice about 15 years ago to feed reptiles in the UK.
I think the call to ban Youtube is a bit extreme and yet again a knee-jerk reaction we are getting so used to hearing these days.
Also a mod of a UK piranha site is saying that mice are not a part of a piranha's diet, of course they are, along with birds, insects, fruit and other fish. That is surprising.
I'm not really shocked by these vids, as peoples curosity lead people to do and watch such videos it is only people are able to broadcast this across the world that it comes to light.
Also read the ingredients of your flake food you feed your fish and see whta has gone into that."

"I have to say that I find the Oscar picture most upsetting. These fish have been mutialted for amusement only. This is completely uneccesarry and cruel, this is without mentioning the damage and infection the piercing would cause.

As for the Pirahna videos, I find them distasteful but they are exhibiting a natural feeding insect; in the wild they are oppurtunistic and will eat what they can, alive or dead. I think the keepers filming this are being immoral and childish, but to me it is no more cruel than seeing a chicken in the supermarket that has been butchered for food.

As for fish being cooked alive and eaten, although i think this is obscene, as a vegetairan i think i can say this. Any meat eater must surely understand that the meat they eat has suffered in the some way before it reaches their plate.

People need to be careful before they critisize. These videos are cruel and unecesarry but surely thet are just a reflection of everyday life for a lot of people???"

"I'm aboustly ****ing disgusted! I'm sorry all living animal that have been bought into this world should not be abused like that! The chances are that person who used that mouse would have most likely walked into a pet shop and bought it. Shoudl'nt the shop keeper have asked questions like fish tradesmen do when you person fish?!

As with Youtube they do show things we all laugh at and enjoy. BUT there is a limit! This is crutelly to animals be it furry or have scales full stop!"

"THIS IS WRONG WHY DONT YOU TUBE VET VIDEO CONTENT MORE THOROUGHLY IF THEY DONT ALLOW "ADULT CONTENT" THEN WHY ALLOW ANIMAL CRUELTY!"

"To Tom: That website is absolutely horrific. Whoever could watch two fish fight and kill each other must have seriously disturbed, psychiatrically."

"I agree with luke, you have to be sick to watch such a thing and people wonder why the world is not such a great place anymore, is it any wonder with this sort of thing on view and when young children can watch this as well.

Some animals do need live foods and will not eat unless given this, but piranhas will take dead foods with no problem the vidio above is just sick and I do thing that pet shops should ask why that animal is being purchased in the first place, I as an aquatic retailer will not sell fish if I think that they are not going to be kept as they should, I may losse money but I have a say in the matter but animals don`t.

you have to put yourself in place of that mouse, the pain it must go through before it dies must be horrific I know that happens in the wild but that is nature, this does not have to be the same in the home. "

"If you're a Youtube member simply go to the appropriate video page and report the clip to the adminstrators.

Very easy to do.

If they get enough reports the clip will be removed.

Don't just moan about it, do something...

"

"Unfortunately we are living in an increasingly cruel and violent society. These terrible acts undoubtedly feeding sick and perverted minds that enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on defenceless creatures. Such people can often move on to become murderers. These people are not fishkeepers in any sense of the word. YouTube is becoming an increasingly sick website, and FHM is just a magazine for looking at tarts."

"Go to the site and under the viewing history
http://www.youtube.com/recen...
there is a section asking for
"got feedback"

This asked a few questions and allows you to add a comment without having to login in or sign up to you tube.
Make sure you say Inappropriate in the comments box.

"

"All forms of cruelty should be banned including WARS."

"I myself own a hamster and I have just seen a video of a large 2-3ft pet lizard eating a hamster.
Whats this world coming too?!
It's about time Youtube staff get off their bottoms and sorted this out! It's gone on far enough!"

"Doran Figart: Just because a fish is an animal, and a mouse is an animal, dosn't mean that they cannot feel pain and fear. Take a good look at the mouse in the video, it is clearly terrified. How can you say being ripped limb from limb is not painful? There is not one single reason on this earth to feed piranah live foods, even newly caught wild piranah will take dead foods, so if you feel the need to feed them mice and the like, why not go to a good reptile shop and buy humanely killed mice?

It is the attitude of people like this who allow these things to still carry on, when infact, they are incredibly cruel, and inhumane. "

"i had to stop the video of the mouse after about 2 second, just seing it being held by a sadistic man and then dropped and swimming desperatly disturbed me deeply and now i am hunted by what happened after that even thought i didn't watch it. i wish i had no compation and found it funy like some of those sick people but i am one of those who can't sleep at night thinking about the suffering of people and animal being tortured every second. so here is another suffering i have to take on board . thank you youtube."

"is there no way the people who post these videos on youtube can be reported to the rspca/sspca somehow? can they be traced back to the person who made them?
i haven't watched the ones on here as i really don't want to see them but i think that if the animals in them are being abused then the appropriate authorities should be getting involved!!!"

"Sorry guys but feel that is a bad show even putting those videos on your site. IMO you are just adding to the "infamy" and noriourtiy that the people who put out these sort of clips want. "

"I think posting the videos was justified as it shows how cruel they are. People might otherwise overlook the story but this one is obviously attracting a lot of comment."

"im not against live food infact ive fed my redtail catfish frogs i brought but ive seen a video on youtube where some peeps fed gold fish to snake head and they was laughing at the dying fish that made me sick"

"I cannot add any more to it, than this...I am sorry for anybody who boasts of it and sharing their sickness with the rest of the world... evanescense should actually sue them for using their music in the video without consent..."

"THAT IS SICK

someone who is prepared to feed their animals live food is pretty twisted anyway, but filming it and putting it on youtube is disgusting.

dosen't youtube check about things such as this. Becuase it is not restricted think of who could see it. What would happen if a 5 year old child saw this?"

"I think we all need to face up to our own use of animals in our diet and lives in general. I abhor the idea of feeding live animals unless strictly necessary - even those swallowed in one gulp must suffer as I don't suppose death is instantaneous. But what about eating oysters and those lovely grubs eaten alive on wildlife programmes, let alone boiling lobsters alive - I find that pretty bad too.The worst part of all this is that the death of these creatures on Youtube is being used as entertainment. a student I was working with me showed me a clip of a large frog and a mouse which he found amusing.I was quick to tell him to turn it off. "

"I was on youtube the other day and saw a skilled sushi chef filet a live fish to the point of no meat being on the bones then placed back into the tank still alive. I am appalled by these videos. such cruelty should not be allowed"

"I, I, I, cant believe it. What kind of a world are we living in? It's physically sickening. Yes, animals are eaten in the wild but in the home it's not necessary is it!!
I don't even want to search for those other videos people have mentioned. It will get me more outraged.
"

"There's no point in just moaining about how cruel it is, we must, when ever we see such videos, flag them as innapropriate, as it is the only way we will ever get anything done about them. "

"I managed to get half way down this list of messages and then couldnt cope any more! I havnt even seen these horrendous vids and I dont think I could watch! It may be extreme but I seriously think that we need to regulate aquatic ownership! some sort of licence despiratley need to be introduced! "

"What has the world come to? Are we not supposed to be civilised? Cruel and barbaric, these words do not do these acts justice. These people must be prosecuted and Youtube should be censured also. Absolutely disgusting."

"It is just worrying that there are people out there who a)don't care about there fish and b) don't care about the food they have chosen to give to them.

It makes me sick and my real thoughts can't be expressed here.

I think that youtube need to sort out their priorities, getting customers or keeping on top of all sorts of horrendous videos.

Ed"

"I have seen numerous examples of animal cruelty on YouTube (including cruelty against fish). Every time I have seen these videos I (and several others) have flagged them as inappropriate.

To this day, not a single one has been removed from the site! So much for YouTube's guidelines which it continues to flout!

A law needs to be passed which means these sites can not publish such material. Reading the sick comments that are posted in response to the videos, it is blatantly obvious that certain people find these acts hilarious and they could even be encouraged to imitate these acts for their own amusement and notoriety."

"The thing is is that these videos should be banned.
I'm not saying that youtube should be shut down but the website should have some sort of censoring.
It's starting to give fishkeepers bad names and the videos should be removed before it gets out of hand."

"they do have this law its the same one which bans recoded street fights on video sites but the editors don't inforce this law

also ive accentdently fed my two male guppies too my 2 inch tiger shovel nose catfish thinking that they was too big for him (i have a shovel nose now because my red tail ied:'( he was a nice fish)"

"what i want to say is not suitable for this site!"

"I am new to fish keeping so I dont know if this is the normal way of feeding these fish but from the comments left I am guessing not. As for piercing fish I cant understand what goes through some peoples heads. Youtube of and other simmlar site should not be allowing these video clips to be shown."

"It's a proven fact that a lot of murders started by 'practising' on animals first....possibly something for the YouTube people to think about....

I was almost sick when I read about the fish being deep-fried alive. Can you imagine the pain?
I'm gonna have nightmares about that poor creature. If someone can do that to a fish what can they do to a cat, a dog, a baby?"

"I just read Matt Clarke's last post.

I keep reptiles, mainly, and I find it sickening to see the numbers of iguanas suffering rickets and overfed/underfed large pythons thanks to owners who think it would be 'cool' to have a big reptile but have no idea how to look after them. Also staffie bull terriers (a gorgeous, soppy breed of dog in the right hands). These are animals (along with piranhas) that are often kept by a certain type of young man who wants to look 'hard'. This is also the type of person most likely to make one of these videos.

I do think that although a lot of this cruelty was obviously for the cameras a lot would have gone on anyway-posibly for the 'enjoyment' of a group of mates rather than a camera. Now it's public responsible people can do something about it i.e phone the RSPCAs cruelty hotline (0870 55 55 999), if they can talk to youtube (perhaps along with their american equivalent) perhaps these videos will be removed."

"You are so right Alice. I love Staffordshire bull terriers but I would never get one because I don't want people to think I fall into that stereotype. Piranhas are the same. They're both kept by the same type of people. Thugs usually.

There might be "normal" middle class folk keeping them, but if there are I have not seen them. Sad but true. If there has ever been a fish for the chav the piranha is it."

"On the Youtube comments below the videos several members of Youtube are leaving comments containing foul language. If youtube can't or wont remove the videos then they can at least remove the comments with foul language in. I am also suprised that on the Youtube code of conduct there is no rule prohibiting the use of bad language on the site."

"In reply to Alice Porter's last comment:

I'm sure I recently read that the RSPCA wanted to do something about these types of sites, but they are finding it impossible to deal with the situation as the problem is on an international level involving various different groups. They also do not have enough powers to enforce any regulations.

This is why governments around the world need to take some responsibility for the welfare of animals and start passing some appropriate legislation which could stop this kind of animal cruelty being shown. These sites certainly need more regulation, perhaps from some external body as they seem incapable of regulating themselves.

I did submit a petition to the government (via their website) for a law to be passed for this very reason, but it was rejected. If more people and organisations worked together to put pressure on the government to take some action then something might get done.
I dread to think how many physical injuries and deaths have been the result of sites such as YouTube?!"

" Firstly, I'd like to make clear I don't search for any of this type of video, in fact the only one I've ever watched was a staged feeding and it was awful, I still get very upset thinking about it.

Until recently I was completely ignorant of this but came upon it by chance as someone on the Goldfish group I help run mentioned she'd seen a distressing video on there. I flagged the clip as Inappropriate as did many others of our membership. However, I wasn't surprised to find that several days later it was still there (I wonder how many flags a clip needs to be withdrawn?) so I contacted 'Youtube Support' and spoke to a representative called Julie. I asked her what they intended doing about it (bear in mind I was still unaware just how widespread this was then). She told me the clip had been reviewed by Youtube and it was not violating any of their terms and conditions.

She suggested I contact the person who posted it and persuade them to remove it-putting the onus on me to do something about it which is a similar cop-out to eBay invoking the "we're only a venue" loophole to wriggle through when any kind of dispute occurs. I've since become aware of just how many of these awful videos there are and it's not just fish that are suffering, all sorts of animals and people are filmed in distressing situations for our gratification. By the way, I think this site is right to include the sample videos at the top of this page to make sure people reading this get the message that this outlet for cruel violence needs to be stopped right now.

In my opinion the bottom line isn't whether it passes any legal criteria-it's what's morally right & wrong and if it's disturbing for us to watch how would it affect a child just idly browsing for cute videos of pets? Even when you do find a nice video of someone's fishes there's always several 'nasties' in the related clips menu on the same page to haunt you. With this in mind, I never look at any of the animal clips anymore which is a shame because it could be so rewarding.

As the person in one of the above posts said the RSPCA and similar worldwide bodies are almost powerless to act because of the need to involve so many different legal and law enforcement agencies. I believe the backlash could begin here as PFK has a lot of sway and going public with this is great but we need all pro-animal groups to unite against this and perhaps we can make a difference. All my life I've been against censorship of any kind but this filth has changed my ideas somewhat-sorry for the long post! "

"In response to "David M"s comment.

Not all Piranha owners are thugs. If you go onto http://www.piranha-forum.... you will find some of them most able fishkeepers around.

I personally keep Piranhas aswell as Oddballs and I am (like many) a responsible keeper who looks after his fish like any other person.

Just my bit, as you calling us "thugs" is an unnecessary comment.

Ed"

"Very disappointed with Youtube for allowing such content to be posted on their.
More importantly I am disguted that a fellow hobbyist could carry out such an awful act. Most if not all of us are in the hobby as conservationists and lovers of the natural world. These acts are in absolute contradiction of this. To the outside world it brings shame to the fishkeeping community!
Essack Abraham"

"People who go on to commit horrific acts against people often start out on animals. These idiots should be tracked down and locked up."

"Youtube like many off these sites seem to have a problem policing user content but i wouldn't want such sites banned as i like to view the aquaria of fellow responsible fishkeepers.

Perhaps if the RSPCA and its american counterparts followed up some prosecutions of animal abusers who post on these sites there would be a marked reduction in such horrible images, i am sure if a child or a kitten was being so abused in such a clip there would be national outcry but our fishy pals seem to evoke less sympathy in the general public."

"The whole thing is disgusting...It makes me think that there are the same idiots out there keeping fish for all the wrong reasons as there are dog owners buying illegal pit bull terriers etc for the wrong reasons...they have no interest as such - it just fuels the macho image...."

"I am new to YouTube and watched as a goldfish was cruelly and slowly eaten bit by bit by piranhas, it was horried. The gold fish was strong, it had most of its body eaten and still put up a fight, sick sick sick. If you have to give live food to other fish surely there is a more humane way to do it. This to me was extremely cruel, sick and fowl. I did see the listings for the mouse etc but after watching the poor gold fish slowly being eaten II chose then NOT to watch it and I still do choose NOT to watch it.

As for the Oscars with lip piercings how utterly nuts is that, we may damage ourselves but leave the fish alone. How and who did he manage to get someone to do this evil deed? was it at the vets or the tatt's shop?

Stuff like this should not only be banned from YouTube but every and any where else in our sick world!

There is always someone somewhere who just has to go to far!"

"Isn't it right though that in the UK it is illegal to feed live vertebrates to any animal including fish (as the predator or prey)? I keep reptiles as well and though I've never fed live vertebrates (and never intend to - it is completely unnecessary and would pose a risk to my pets) so I'm relatively familiar with the law and I'm sure you aren't allowed to feed live verts at all including fish.

I think the problem with sites like youtube is that they are mainly used in the US where these practices aren't illegal. It's put me off a lot of American based forums where you get at least one thread a week with the title along the lines of "Goliath bird eating spider V's mouse" or "Burmese python Vs rabbit". It's totally disgusting and yet in the UK we keep the same animals without having to resort to live feeding. I've got little respect for people who feed live as I've been finding 9 times out of 10 it's only for their own "enjoyment" not a requirement of the animal.

Given the obvious links between animal cruelty and violence against people you'd think this kind of practice should be illegal. "

"I thought the comment about children seeing this and comparing this to adult content a bit disturbing.
I would imagine scenes of sex and violence to be prohibited but the act of an animal eating another to be censored to be terrible.
Even programs about animals on tv are not showing the killing of animals just in case someone is offended. I'm afraid to say that is real life and animals die everyday to feed us and clothe us.
Peoples perception of cruelty is different, people think keeping fish in tanks is cruel or that feeding live food is cruel, when you feed your fish flake food how many fish suffocated to make the ingredients.
I haven't see all the clips but just when people are faced with it, people are shocked. People are saying it's terrible for the mice, but how about when people put down poison for them? It is not a quick death like being eaten but slow and lingering, I don't personally feed mice but I think people should look at the whole picture instead of a knee jerk reaction, ban something just because you don't like to see the reality.

Rich"

"In response to Marcus Stuart-Murray's comment:

"Perhaps if the RSPCA and its american counterparts followed up some prosecutions of animal abusers who post on these sites there would be a marked reduction in such horrible images, i am sure if a child or a kitten was being so abused in such a clip there would be national outcry but our fishy pals seem to evoke less sympathy in the general public."

Unfortunately, I have come across numerous clips on YouTube against animals other than fish (including the cute and cuddly kind) and the comments in response are just as sick as those posted in response to the fish ones - they seem to think it is funny.

I have marked them as unsuitable when I have accidentally come across them in a completely unrelated search, but still they continue to be shown."

"Richard Daley:

If you saw the images for yourself then you would be as shocked as the rest of us.

If you heard the comments made by the people in these videos and read the comments posted afterwards, then you would see that these videos are being made because they find the suffering of animals amusing, not for any kind of educational reason (that can be attributed to the nature programmes shown on television who are filmed in their natural environment).

We are living in dangerous times if we think that these kinds of images are 'entertainment'.

As pet owners (and supposedly the superior species on this planet!), it is our job to look after the welfare of animals, not to subject them to this mindless violence for our own amusement.

As a vegetarian, I don't think I need to express my views concerning the poisoning of mice. But just because you could argue that the slow death by poison is wrong, that does not mean that these videos can just be dismissed. I have never come across any mice poisoner posting a clip of mice slowly dying of poison on YouTube - and THAT is the point - it is NOT entertainment and should therefore NOT be shown to the general public."

"I see the pirinah video has been taken down. Well done to those who went in and flagged it as inappropriate."

"I agree with the general opinion, these clips are sickening, they have bothered me for some time.But I was disappointed to see that, in the latest issue of Practical Fishkeeping you encourage feeding live crayfish to puffers!

This is just as upsetting to watch, and is equally grotesque and inhumane in my opinion. Hypocrisy...
"

"The people making these videos should be thrown into a bath of piranahs (or a nice big shark) and see how they fair!!"

"I find the videos and associated comments on YouTube sickening.

I don’t however disagree with the mechanism which allows these videos to be seen until users flag the content as inappropriate. I’m disappointed that the moderators have not removed the footage after it has been flagged but feel the best course of action is to continue to flag and comment on these sites until the standards have changed.

As a side issue I keep various puffer fish and feed various different live food: shrimp, snails and worms. I’ve never fed live fish and don’t have any intention of doing so but wonder why many find it ethical to feed certain live animals and not others.
"

"'H Haraldseide'

I think one major factor you have to take into fact is that these videos are posted on sites like youtube for entertainment value only. They serve no other purpose and I agree the site should vet each and every video and remove ones similar to those mentioned.

In relation to feeding puffer fish 'live' foods - that is a natural diet for the fish. As responsible fish keepers we do not see this as entertainment and are merely replicating as close as possible the natural environment and diet of the puffer. Crayfish are often fed in the States as they are very easily come by in the waters around owners houses. They are a cheap food source over there. Here it is a different matter. They are very expensive and hard to come by.

I take your point that not everyone is happy feeding a living creature to another. In the wild it is not seen as a problem but in the aquaria some people may frown upon the idea. If we are to keep predators then it is our duty to keep them as best as we can.

Replicating a natural balanced diet is a good way to start in my opinion.I wrote the article because puffers can be very difficult to feed and often will only take 'live' foods. The whole idea of the article infact was to inform people on the ways of getting puffers off live foods and onto more readily available 'dead' foods. So I disagree that the article was promoting the use of live foods but merely attempting to promote the opposite.

But if you are simply against 'live' feeding then where do we draw the line?

Do we stop feeding live bloodworm? What about baby brine shrimp which is fed to fry that we breed?"

"Ian I thought your article was balanced, interesting and informative but I read it as recomending a varied diet and not promoting the use of non live food.

I have a Tetraodon Miurus (Congo Puffer). I understand its piscivor and to replicate its natural diet would mainly involve live fish. I choose not to use feeder fish from fear of disease amongst other health issues. I find the ethical debate regarding live foods a difficult one and think its a good subject to explore further on the PFK forum.

There is a clear distinction though between a responsible fish keeper making decisions with their fishes health as the main consideration and the atrocious footage shown on some of these clips. "

"Ian Jefferies: Don't get me wrong. Understand that my comment is not about live food, but about turning animal cruelty into entertainment. This is not an attack on puffer keepers who feed small shrimp/crayfish. I've kept puffers myself.

But do you think feeding an oversized crayfish or crab to a puffer that has to fight if for 10 minutes to kill it is ok? If so, then we just disagree. I can not see what purpose that would serve other than for entertainment, nor can I see the difference between that and feeding mice to piranha, from a ethical perspective.

I want to recreate nature at its finest, not at its worst. I feed all my predators dead food, mostly because it is more convenient but I also like the idea. Again, I have nothing against live food, but it should be done with some sort of maturity and respect. I am not an extremist; if I was my arguments would have no value."

"It makes me feel disapointed in humanity. The comments that the people who post these videos come out with about any one who posts complaints about the blatent cruelty is a hippies, some of the comments on one of the vidoes talked about shooting all the hippies personally i would say that was threatening behaviour and against you tubes terms of agreement. How these people can actually hold that mouse over that tank and not feel sorry for it makes me feel sad. What makes it worse is the fact that people seem to justify it and think that are right. There is no need to feed any living thing to another animal and just because it is an invert does not justify it. If there is no alternative to live food then the fish should not be kept. The fish being kept is only being kept fo pleasure so there is not justification for feeding it live food."

"'H Haraldseide'

I fully support what you are saying
I didn't comment on the video you refer to because although I have seen it I wasn't sure whether you had as there is no visible link here to it. That said I also got the impression both from its title and content that the video again was more for entertainment value than anything else. I would like to think that my article is far from anything youtube wishes to promote in that way.

Feeding dead over live is a message I have tried to promote through advice over the internet and I certainly thought that the crayfish in the video was too much for that particular puffer.That also brings about the issue of over feeding the puffer as well which can lead to health problems for the fish.
I have a vast collection now of puffers including many fry, all of which are now on a regular diet of dead foods.That is why I personally promote the use of non live foods, however I have to take into account that many owners do feed live foods whether it be bloodworm, earthworms,shrimps or crayfish.
I think you sumed my feelings up well.

"Again, I have nothing against live food, but it should be done with some sort of maturity and respect. "

That I fully agree with and to me is a world apart from these dreadful videos.

Ian"

"I am totally opposed to cruelty. It seems that fish are frequently treated badly and that because they are 'only fish' a term which really annoys me, it is accepted. It is about time something was done. Cruelty is wrong. fish should be afforded the same level of protection as all other forms of life. It would be front page news if a chimpanzee or other popular animal was treated like this. I am pleased to see that the video of the mouse being eaten has been removed."

"OK so a live shrimp is fine, if the fish can swallow and kill it whole, which can be said of some fish and mice but that is not OK.
Feeding worms and live shrimp is ok but not fish.
Feeding processed food or frozen with contains worms/shrimp/fish and not knowing how they died is OK.

So in essence if it is cute don't feed it live to anything and it is ugly you can.
Or concerning processed fish food if you don't see what happens to the ingredients, ie, fish/shrimps then it doesn't matter and you can sit on your moral highhorse and tell everyone else what they are doing is wrong.

Please let me know if I have got this wrong.

"

"In response to David Fletcher and others that share the opinion of it being hypocritical to be annoyed about say a mouse being fed over a crayfish. It's relatively well known that invertebrates lack the capacity to feel fear and probably pain as well. Unfortunately a mouse or fish isn't so lucky and is perfectly capable of being stressed and suffering pain.
That's why in the UK the line is drawn at vertebrates but it's OK to feed crickets, mealworms etc."

"I would like to point out that when feeding crayfish to puffers or other fresh water fish atleast the crayfish is in an enviroment that it knows . A mouse thrown into a tank of water is in a totaly alien enviroment , seeing the crayfish being eaten is not my idea of fun however the crayfish is atleast "at home" for a few seconds and a puffer bites it in two as soon as it has it in its mouth. What I cannot stand is to see live goldfish thrown into a marine tank for fish to eat and into a pirana tank for that matter, I grow and feed my fish brine shrimp and I buy river shrimp for my fish to eat. These shrimp are eaten as soon as they go into the water and I hope they do not suffer the only thing that settles my mind is that they are aquatic and are not being stressed my being in an alien enviroment. The feeding of mice to fish is clearly for the fun of the fish owner and not for the benifit of the fish. "

"Mice couldn't do the fish that good anyway especially if the have diseases."

"i think"

"Everyone needs to report them to utube as you find them. I got one pulled last year that showed a large live goldfish being ripped apart. It was horrible and I still can't get that image out of my head. "

"This isn't the only kind of fish cruelty type video on YouTube. I was totally sickened by a video on there which was of Japanese origin whereby at a sushi bar a live fish was removed from a tank its side was removed and served to a customer and the fish still living was returned to the tank. In fact it was swimming about like this I was near enough physically sick as the fish must have been in agony. "

"wow it is bad, but theres lots of people out there that do worse to animals, i was a big fan on youtube, but now humm not good. should be a way you can contact them and report them?
lets hope something gets done and stopped
danielle"

"I have recently complained to You tube about the Videos of people forcing there puffers to "puff" especially one video which had two divers playing catch with a small Porcupine Puffer ! I an horrified by these videos and I think we should instantly report them as Inappropriate as soon as we find anyhting like this on You Tube .
Cheers
Ben

"

"Gayle Alexander - I did not postulate “the opinion of it being hypocritical to be annoyed about say a mouse being fed over a crayfish..”

I think feeding a mouse to any fish disgusting and reprehensible.

I stated that I regularly feed live shrimp, snails but not feeder fish despite it being a piscivor.
"

"I always feel like there's not much hope for sorting out the state the world is in when people exist who take pleasure in watching suffering. "

"I came across a video in which this restaurant owner caught a fish (cant remember which species) from a tank, sliced off one of the flanks and put sauce on it and served it to a customer. The fish was returned to the tank, alive, presumably to be kept fresh for the next customer. I could never adequatly describe both my disgust and the pity i felt for that poor creature.

What can one do against such ignorance?

"

"i don't condone these kind of activities at all, but in a way some of what your offended by might be an over reaction. pirannah's eat live prey in the wild, and will tear apart animals naturally, those who keep snakes MUST feed they're animals live prey, or in most cases it will not eat.

putting (some) of these videos on youtube will show other users the full extent of what they need to do to own these somtimes exotic pets, if they didn't ever see a snake eating a mouse, then when they actually got they're pet.. they might be in too big of a shock, and might just give it up again. (using feeder fish for bigger meat eating ones is quite the same idea. in the wild, this IS how they eat after all)

however, the deplorable videos about skinning the flanks of a fish off to eat, cutting off tails / fins and leaving them to live with the agony and the like SHOULD absolutly be investigated and taken down, noone should be allowed to take pleasure in even watching that kind of nonecense."

"I do not understand how any human being can act in such an incredible manner, but regrettably every day sickening actions by supposed civilized humans against both humans and an amazing variety of other animals are reported in the media. We cannot start to think what atrocities are deemed not "newsworthy" or "fit for recipients consumption" are edited out and never reported.

In today's paper, a local a shop is selling iPonds with 850 millilitres of water with a Betta splendens in it for A$70! The idea is to plug an MP3 into it so that music plays through a speaker in the base of the iPond. Gravel is placed in the bottom of the tank "to block the noise for the fish's comfort". This actually reduces the capacity to 650 millilitres.

They are apparently manufactured in the US and is not associated with Apple.

A Pets Paradise said staff had noticed no difference in the attitude of Bettas in the iPond and those in normal tanks.
You can source this article at theage.com.au"