Getting Waterboarded

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That was so difficult to watch, and harder still to imagine how many people have suffered that and much more at the hands of American interrogators. The current leaders of this nation are dangerous men and we as a nation need to put our feet down and stop this madness. There is no way that we should torture people for any reason. Terrorism is not new, ask anyone in Belfast about the "war on terror" being a new war. Terrorist were hijacking planes all over the world in the 70''s. It is only being called new because it has finally really hit here in USA, perhaps now we won''t keep thinking we are so much better than everyone else. If we engage in torture "legal" or otherwise we surely are the same as the terrorist, maybe worse because of the hypocrisy.

Excellent work and a very informative piece.

So in essence Congress told Bush "you can do whatever you want".

As if he knew what he is doing.

Very informative. But can congress and the President see the incogruency of this or is it just me?

One of the best piece I''ve seen so far on current.

One question for you: What are your nightmares like after doing doing something like this?

I am shocked! Not at the video but at the conclusions and the comments posted here. I just watched a guy have water poured over him with a wet rag shoved in his mouth and people want to call that torture! I wonder what Nick Berg was thinking as the terrorists slowly cut his head from his shoulders. When he was screaming in pain and fear what was he thinking. I wonder if the terrorists are sitting around discussing this the wayt we are. You think that they say amongst themselves that if we stop beheading Americans then they will stop waterboarding our people? No they don not, They are not concerned with what we do and for those who think we can be nice and win them over are foolish.

I think the comment in the video that no one wants terrorism is false. Clearthinker is an example of many who feel it is necessary for survival. They support it, and want it done to as many people as need be.

They are of course the fools and perverts of the world. Like the man said, you will say anything to get it to stop. We are torturing thousands - for no reason - getting bogus info and insuring that in the next war we will have forfeited the Geneva conventions on our own soldiers. Blinded by fear, clearwater and his many friends will say and do anything.

The problem with people like thentro is that it is difficult to have a dialogue because unless I agree with you I have to be a "fool" and a "pervert". Why can i not ust be a person with a difference of opinion? Probably because with people like you there is only one opinion that counts and that is yours, Right?

I am not for torture but I do not considered waterboarding torture. That is what I think. If I am wrong explain to me why it is torture and why I am wrong.

Also, what is it tat makes you think that our soldiers will be treated better if we are only nicer to the enemy. Give me one example of when Al Qaeda adhered to the Geneva Conventions. Can you?

The people that you defend are the people who riot an kill when a cartoon is drawn that they do not like, or when the Pope quotes someone in a speech. Something so small can cause riots and killings and threats but yet we need to restrain ourselves? When do they need to practice restraint? If you want to debate this I am happy to, but if you want to call names then you are too narrow minded to have a logical debate with and not worth wasting my time.

I agree that name-calling is useless. I believe that you are entitled to your opinion, right, wrong, or neither. As mentioned quite a few times in the video, torture is not always pain. It''s not painful to have your head shoved and held underwater repeatedly, but it causes mental "anguish". It''s the same idea here: simulate drowning to cause "anguish" to the waterboard-ee and make them scared enough to talk.

You want me to name a moment in time when Al-Qaeda adhered to the Geneva conventions? How about when they were just forming, and had nobody to torture, or at any point in time since when they didn''t happen to be torturing, given that they want to torture. The question is not when they adhered; it is when they did _not_ adhere. Can you name a moment when they did? Sorry for responding to a question with a question, but you asked a loaded question...

I do not defend Muslims because they riot, I defend them because they are people. We seem to have forgotten: Muslims are people too, with all the same rights. Have you seen the movie (or the trailer of the movie) Jesus Camp? That''s happening right here in the USA, and their goal is to turn those kids into the Evangelical version of the extremist Islamic groups in the Middle East. They literally say that. You are generalizing Muslims. How about if I said that "We need to work on moderation? Look at those people in America who are training their kids to be ''God''s Army''. Something as small as a single unbeliever can cause threats and riots and killings?" Search Google for ''extreme evangelical reactions to atheists'' or ''threats atheists'' or any such phrase, and you''ll find many, many accounts of Christian hate as well. I''m not saying that all Christians are evil, but I''m making an equivalent over-generalization.

What I personally want to know is "Why is this happening at all?" Waterboarding is not designed to extract useful information, it''s designed to extract *confessions*. Look at the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia; they did the same thing. Torture CANNOT extract reliable information. People will say anything when they''re in serious pain or "mental anguish" to make it stop.

Clearthinker,

I respect your right to disagree, to have an opinion different than mine.

But I also believe it is torture. And I believe that, as the previous poster said, it really doesn''t do anything really positive. It only serves to escalate fear, then hate, which in turn spirals into more violence.

I know many people think my ''pacifist'' attitude is somehow akin to sticking my head in the sand. But just look at the studies (done by our own intelligence experts) that show that we''ve made the world *less* save through our escapades in Iraq. Why can''t we see that fighting terrorism *with* terrorism can never succeed? And because of the nature of trying to do battle with something like Al Qaeda, our "war" on them looks like nothing less than terrorism to the average Muslim living in the "war zone"! Think about it!!

A "war" on terrorism, it seems obvious to me, is a war that will only end when there are no more warriors, on either side, left standing. Is that what we want?

You focus in your comment on how Al Qaeda behaves; i.e. do they follow the Geneva Conventions. Well, the whole idea behind them, and what I believe, is that if you take the moral high ground, and behave thusly, it''s the only thing that can turn the tide away from the descent into total chaos. I guess the simplest way to put it is that I believe that if we spent *half* as much as we''ve spent on this war and greater "war on terrorism" on sending foodstuffs and building hospitals and schools, a lot of those people wouldn''t hate us and want to kill us! I''m not saying all of them of course; there will always be extremists, but lets keep them on the fringes where they can be dealt with, by making the majority at least respect us. Of course this would take some real guts to do; "what do you mean, feeding and healing the enemy?" But it would redefine this country on the kind of global scale that could turn this all around!

As an aside, I wish the debate wasn''t so emotionally charged that it so often descends into name calling and attacks. No one is going to change their mind if they''re being attacked and ridiculed. The extremists, on both left and right need to learn that, if any real change is going to happen in this country.

wow i can''t believe the guy who thinks this is ok and justifiable calls him self "clearthinker" how very neo-con of you sir. Kudos to you.
Why don''t we just start beating the sh!t out of anyone who is 2 shades darker than khaki, kill them without discression, rape thier kids...oh wait we are allready doing that. why the f--k isnt it working?
hmmm we obviusly arn''t being agressive enough. we ought to just nuke the whole region wait a few months and liberate the oil. this polite sh!t is just wasting time.

As a veteran I think that all of the arguing about violating the Geneva convention and Morallity is a tad over the top. Those who do not abide by the convention will do what ever they see fit to any of our people caught up in this war, Military or civilian. The true reality of the situation, that many people are overlooking, is that the extremists we are fighting will not give a rats @$$ about the geneva convention (like the NVA 30+years ago). It is laughable to think that they will. It is also a joke that we should afford those in Gitmo and other prisons under our control the rights of a US citizen, this is just fringe stupidity . Most all soldiers abide by the rules, out of Morality and because they are just as concerned about what would be done to them in a similiar situation. But the islamic fundamentlists wont care. they will torture and slaughter our troops and any westerner with no qualms. The next post in this thread makes a blanket statement about all troops. What are your sources?remote incidents by people who are in uniform does not equate to "ALL" those in uniform. I wonder what the opinions of the posters here will be when they strike again. Please dont think that the attacks will stop nor will they happen again because we are in Iraq. They hate us period. Convert or die. I think I''ll fight over that one.

Twenty-four minutes!!!
I really enjoyed this piece, one of the best I''ve seen yet. I appreciate Kaj''s fearlessness and the lengths he will go to illustrate a point however, fear of drowning is less severe than the torture methods being used by our terrorist enemies. We speak of "winning hearts and minds"-- we have been trying to do that for long enough. Waterboarding should be like going to Disneyland compared to the other forms we are capable of and should be implementing.

If waterboarding isn''t torture, why did we see fit to prosecute it as a war crime after WWII? Or is it only torture when it''s done against us?

Of course it''s torture - and more than that, it''s a completely ineffective tool. It gets people to say what they think you want to hear, in order not to drown. That doesn''t mean you''re getting the truth out of them. We already know that one of the reasons we went to war with Iraq was due to the false statements by a prisoner linking Iraq and Al Queda after he was "aggressively questioned:. Everything he said was later proven to be bogus. People will say anything to get the torture to stop, whether they know anything or NOT. And if they do know something and are a terrorist, can you really expect them to tell you the truth because you torture them?

It''s the sort of tactics the Soviet Union, the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge indulged in - they weren''t interested in the truth or gaining intelligence. I get tired of the counter-argument that Al Queda doesn''t hesitate to torture people. No siree, they don''t - but aren''t we supposed to be better than them?

If we lose all of our principles, what are we fighting FOR exactly? The right to be the biggest bully in the playground?

hey im a 14 yaer old and found that this film was very diturbing to see the body react to the tourture was a experiance that changed my opinion about america, i glad im australian!!!

Someone ought to tell sovery "Christian" Bush: "Torture others as you would have them torture you". If that variant and other variants of the fundamental Christian value, the Golden Rule, were applied in all the USA''s dealings with others, most wars would certainly disappear, as would poverty for that matter.

Getting tortured,and waterboarding fits that definition, is not always about extracting information.Often, it is about dominating an individual, humiliation, seeking to impose the will of one set of ideas on to others in a climate of terror and the shattering of human values.The torturer represents a system feeling on the edge of losing control so a part of the torture exudes the sense of retaining that control.Relevent information may or may not be extracted from torture but those other psychological factors unfortunately perpetuate the misguided thoughts of psycopaths and psycopathic behavior which is why I sense torture will be wih us for awhile.
Kaj did a fabulous job of taking the viewer into that nightmarish blitz of pain and his bravery is only exceeded by his astute commentary.

What you don''t know about Kaj Larsen, is that he can''t adequately demonstrate the distress created by waterboarding. Kaj is a former water polo player, an accomplished military combat diver, and an exceptional warrior. Consequently, he demonstrates what waterboarding is like for a cold, cool, composed elite special operator. He does not adequately demonstrate the hysterical reactions of a mortally distressed detainee in an uncontrolled environment.

I applaud Kaj''s attempts to illustrate the immorality of torture via waterboarding, but he can''t do it justice.

Hooyah!

Being from the USA, I know that tortchure is immoral and the attack on Iraq was uncalled for, unnecessary and is turning into a brutal struggle. It is effecting how the world views the US; however, I never see any discussion of any of the humanitarian efforts we undertake. The US is the most generous country in the world and you all seem to be hollering at us non stop. Why do you not stop the violence in Europe? I don''t think that the water boarding is a torcher that will inflict any permanent physical damage. My web site reflects my negative attitude towards the Bush government and our activities in Iraq, but you all gottta lighten up a little bit. When the Germans were picketing our bases in Germany and told them OK, we will leave, suddenly someone did the math and decided the bases were not that bad after all. Where is Europe in Sudan? Why are the Jews not accepted to this day in Europe. You all need to get your house in order before throwing to many more stones. One man does not make the whole country bad..

Whatever it takes to make terrorists speak...go for it.

I got a taste on three occasions of what may fit the description of waterboarding. About eight years ago, I fell four stories on a construction site which put me in a hospital with a collapsed lung, among other injuries. The terror began on the second night when something had stirred me from my sleep. It turned out that the intibator tube that they jammed down my trachea in order to draw fluid pooling in my lung had developed an accumulation of fluid trapped within a dip in the hose going to a machine next to my bed (I witnessed the nurse drain the hose after each incident). I pressed the request for attendant button and waited. The wait was too long and the increasing anxiety prompted me to disconnect the intibator. By doing this I automatically triggered the alarm at the nurses station. When this happened on the second occurance, I was warned by the nurse that if I disconnected the tube again she would have my hands restrained. This put a deep seated fear in me and contributed to my enduring to the bitter end on the third occurance. My account of what transpired then was this: I awoke once again, and as time passed, I felt a mild anxiety slowly building until I reached a tipping point of deep profound panic as before. But this time, I reached a point of uncontrollable violent bucking in my bed as my back muscles strained in a deep arch. My guess was that I reached the end of what I could endure at around 4-5 minutes before I had, in a final act of desperation as before, ripped the tube from my intibator and the suffering stopped in an instant.

If I had to describe what was going on in my head, there were vague similarities to a prior experience I felt when a military jet flew overhead at a very low altitude unexpectadly out of nowhere. I had an instant whole body reaction of imminent death from the noise and suddeness of it. But that feeling dissipated almost immediately as I gained an awareness that the source of the fright had passed. Like the jet that flew overhead, the sensation of being smothered as I lay in the hospital bed wasn''t like nerve pain, yet it was so profound in triggering an unbearable anxiety that it took over and overuled my mind''s ability to cope or suppress. I had no way of controlling my response to this stimulus in my mind yet I was fully aware of what I was going through as I didn''t blackout (the nurse replied to my protest of feeling suffocated by stating that the blood oxygen monitor never strayed beyond normal levels, otherwise an alarm would have triggered).

In the end, thoughts of actively suppressing this overwhelming panic had no effect in my case. Prior to my having gone through it, this drowning reflex is unlike anything I could have imagined.

Crazy! That guy has some stones. I was amazed that the torturee was able to last 22 minutes past the average person. It was very interesting to see something like that happen before your eyes. I''ve never seen THAT on the Family channel!

While I could barely watch this film I found it very enlightening. I think that if you put yourself in the shoes of people who have suffered much loss from a terrorist, I could imagine that this form of torture would definately be exceptable and would not be deemed as too much if it would find the terrorist and save others.
What kind of dreamworld utopia are all you thinking that this world can actually become. While you might be a wonderful person, our neighbors might not be. Would you let your neighbor shoot a gun at your house and say well, that''s his right, he has a belief that tells him he can do that. No, you''re are going to stop it.
If you do surf the net, you know that people have bad intentions. They do not all love life.
Let''s do our part by not "shooting at our neighbor" and protect ourselves. Take care of your circle and pray that it radiates from you. We can only do our parts. Let''s vote and let the government do their job. They might be saving your life!
I love being an American.. Ya''ll come visit!
I could yell this in the streets and noone would kill me. too cool

When North Korea waterboards to extract information we call it an atrosity - when US performs torture we call it a "necessary evil."

Countries alone can''t be trusted to determine what is a "justified evil." That''s why we have a world-wide ban on torture.

p.s. "terrorists" do not act out in violence just because they are animilistic murders that hate democracy. Read about U.S''s history of involvement in the middle east. Yes we must fight terrorism, but that includes reflecting on our behavior.

I just found out that in the book "Terror on 59" about police brutality in Texas, this torture technique was used on innocent civilians or at least they were "innocent until proven guilty". Our parents have know about this stuff forever. Welcome to America! Time to start re-evaluating where we stand or at least where "I" stand on this issue.