Labour and Tory leaders interviewed by Jeremy Paxman - as it happened

This live blog has now wrapped up. For today’s reaction to the interview, continue to today’s blog:

Corbyn and May teams both claim victory in Paxman showdown – live updates

By now it is clear that this “debate” (like most TV election events of this kind) won’t really have changed very much in the campaign. Generally it is being seen as a bit of a draw. (See 10.43pm.) And it probably did not even contain a memorable moment that people will be talking about for months or years to come because it was particularly revealing. If there has been one so far this election, it may be Theresa May’s “nothing has changed” press conference near-meltdown (although, if May does win a decent majority, that may well be forgotten by the end of the summer).

Yet the May v Corbyn showdown did illustrate how the campaign is evolving. At the start of the campaign, some of Jeremy Corbyn’s critics thought he would be so awful that the Labour campaign would collapse. Well, they have been comprehensively proved wrong, and this evening he looked relaxed and confident. His actions and pronouncements from the 1980s continue to haunt him, but, as the BBC’s Nick Robinson suggests (see 10.43pm), it is better to have the toughest questions relating to what you said in the past than what you are saying now.

And May seems to have changed a bit, too. When she called the election, her campaign seemed to revolve entirely around offering “strong and stable” leadership. The social care U-turn has torn the legs off that strategy, and tonight she barely, if at all, used the phrase. She also chose not to deploy some of the implausible lines about Corbyn she has used previously (like the false claim that he would raise income tax to 25p in the pound). Instead, we got a more humble and grounded PM, who sounded evasive on social care and winter fuel payments, but robust on Brexit, which many people will like.

Here are the main points.

• Jeremy Corbyn refused to confirm that he would be willing to order a drone strike against a terrorist overseas plotting to attack the UK. When it was put to him that he might have to take a decision in 20 minutes, Corbyn replied:

I would want know the circumstances. You can’t answer a hypothetical question without the evidence. It is a completely hypothetical question.

Later in the “spin room” Andrew Gwynne, Labour’s election coordinator, said Corbyn would be willing to order such a strike. Gwynne said:

I actually quite like the idea that we would have a prime minister that wouldn’t go gung-ho into making a decision but would actually sit down and listen to the security experts as to what precisely they think are the risks, are the benefits and are the challenges and make an informed decision on that.

Now of course, any future Labour prime minister, if they are presented with clear evidence that they can remove a threat to the United Kingdom, would make that decision based on that information and I have every confidence that Jeremy Corbyn as our prime minister would make that decision.

• Corbyn has rejected suggestions he would abolish the British monarchy, saying: “It’s not on anybody’s agenda, it’s certainly not on my agenda.” When Jeremy Paxman asked why there was nothing in the Labour manifesto about abolishing the monarchy, when Corbyn was known to favour the idea personally, Corbyn replied:
  

Look, there’s nothing in there as we’re not going to do it.

Corbyn said he accepted that the public wanted to keep the royal family.

I believe in a democracy and we live in a democracy. We have a titular head of state as the monarch but without political power.

• Corbyn said some of the political ideas he has supported are not in the Labour manifesto because he is not “a dictator”. When asked why the manifesto did not include nationalising the banks, a proposal he has backed in the past, he said it reflected the party’s views, not just his.

I’m not a dictator who writes things to tell people what to do.

• He said that Labour would end the benefits freeze. Asked about benefits, he said “of course” they would be uprated. The Lib Dems are claiming that this amounts to a £3bn spending commitment. But Corbyn was not specific about by how much benefits would be uprated. The Labour manifesto includes a commitment to spend £2bn extra a year on benefits, which would allow for some increase, but which would not be enough to full reverse the impact of the Tory benefits freeze.

• Theresa May was heckled at one point when she tried to defend Tory plans for school funding. Asked about about protecting schools funding in real terms per pupil, she said:

Nobody can guarantee the real terms per pupil funding increase. In the Labour party’s manifesto we know the figures don’t add up.

But someone in the audience said Labour’s plans were costed, and someone shouted “You’ve clearly failed.”

• Corbyn defended a comment he made during the Falklands war about how British soldiers were dying because of a “Tory plot”. He said he did not believe it had been a “plot” but that then prime minister Margaret Thatcher had been exploiting the situation.

It didn’t want any young men - British or Argentinian or anybody else - to die in that war. I also think there should have been an opportunity to prevent that war happening by the UN. Margaret Thatcher made a great deal of that issue at the time. I felt that she was exploiting the situation.

• Corbyn refused to say that renewing Trident would be “morally right”.

• May confirmed that she would prefer to walk away from the Brexit talks with no deal than to accept a bad deal.
  

I think you have to. In negotiations you have to recognise that you’re not in there to get a deal at any price.

• Corbyn said he saw himself as a listening politician. Asked about his leadership style, he said:

You should never be so high and mighty you can’t listen to somebody else and learn something from them. Leadership is as much about using this [gesturing to his ear] as using this (pointing to his mouth].

• May dismissed claims that she would be a pushover in the Brexit talks. When Paxman listed some of her U-turns and put it to her that Brussels would see her as “a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire”, she replied:

I think, Jeremy, you will find that what the people in Brussels look at is the record I had of negotiating with them in Brussels and delivering for this country on a number of issues on justice and home affairs which people said we were never going to get, and I got those negotiations.

• Corbyn defended his decision to describe the killing of Osama bin Laden as a tragedy. He said he used the term because bin Laden should have been taken alive.

I think he should have been arrested and he should have been put on trial. And he could have been.

That’s all from me for tonight.

Thanks for the comments.

Here is our story about the May v Corbyn “debate”.

Here is the Press Association’s selection of high and low points for Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May.

Jeremy Corbyn

High: Paxman asked why there was nothing in the Labour manifesto about abolishing the monarchy. Corbyn known for his republican beliefs, replied: “Look, there’s nothing in there as we’re not going to do it.”

Low: The Labour leader was challenged by an audience member who claimed Corbyn had “openly supported the IRA in the past” by attending a commemoration for eight IRA members killed by the SAS in Loughgall. When pressed on the issue, Corbyn said: “The contribution I made to that meeting was to call for a peace and dialogue process in Northern Ireland. It’s only by dialogue and process we brought about peace in Northern Ireland and I think that’s a good thing. “

Theresa May

High: May was repeatedly questioned by Paxman on whether she would be prepared to walk away from Brexit negotitions. The Tory leader drew cheers from some in the audience when she persisted with her response of: “No deal is better than a bad deal.”

Low: The prime minister’s low point came when audience members questioned her about funding for services.

A serving policeman told her the cuts she had made as home secretary had been “devastating”, while a Devon midwife said she had seen staff “at their wits’ end” because of “chronic under-funding”.

Paxman’s standout moment came after he had grilled May about U-turns on social care in the manifesto and proposed hikes in national insurance for the self-employed in the budget.

The TV inquisitor said: “What one’s bound to say is that if I was sitting in Brussels and I was looking at you as the person I had to negotiate with, I’d think ‘she’s a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire’.”

Here are some blogs about May v Corbyn that are worth reading.

• Hugo Muir at the Guardian says Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn can both be reasonably pleased with tonight.

The danger with our embrace of the televised election debate is that we have all come to expect too much from them. Theresa May was reportedly keen to stay clear of any head-to-head confrontation with Jeremy Corbyn.

He, presumably looking for a gamechanger, was enthusiastic to look her in the face. But John F Kennedy versus a fatally sweaty Richard Nixon was more than 50 years ago. Pendulum swings on that scale have barely occurred since.

Live General election: Paxman interviews May and Corbyn - politics liveRolling coverage of interviews with Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn by Jeremy Paxman and a studio audience on the Sky/Channel 4 News Battle for No 10 election programmeRead more

The fact is that both Corbyn and May probably emerged from their grilling by a studio audience, allied to the verbal flamethrowing of Jeremy Paxman, reasonably satisfied.

• Stephen Bush at the New Statesman identifies seven things we have learnt from the “debate”.

Theresa May may have opposed Brexit, but now she needs it to save her

It’s not a good sign for the sitting Prime Minister that the audience laughed at many of her statements. She had only one reliable set of applause lines: her commitment to getting the best Brexit deal.

In a supreme irony, the woman who opposed a Leave vote now needs the election to be a referendum re-run if she is to secure the big majority she dreams of.

• James Forsyth at Coffee House says Jeremy Corbyn put in one of his most assured performances.

• John Rentoul at the Independent says that, even though Jeremy Corybn did well, voters will want Theresa May to be in charge of Brexit.

Corbyn had a much better 45 minutes than she did, but she was the one the audience would send in to Brussels to negotiate with our European partners.

• Katy Balls at Coffee House says there will be “sighs of relief” at CCHQ over the debate.

There might have been no clear winner tonight but, if the more upmarket, liberal end of my Twitter feed is anything to go by, there was a loser. Jeremy Paxman is receiving very poor reviews.

From the New Statesman’s Jason Cowley

From the Guardian’s John Harris

From the Economist’s Adrian Wooldridge

From the Guardian’s Martin Kettle

From HuffPost’s Paul Waugh

From Steve Richards

From the TLS’s Stig Abell

Jeremy Corbyn has won a surprise admirer.

In the past Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, used to be much more positive about May. He is starting to sound a tad disillusioned.

These are from Stefan Rousseau, the Press Association’s chief political photographer.

Ed Miliband has used Twitter to congratulate Jeremy Corbyn on his performance.

And here is the official Labour party reaction to the “debate”. This is from a Jeremy Corbyn spokesperson:

Theresa May floundered on her record on police cuts, on funding for our NHS and schools and on her manifesto policy on social care that didn’t last more than a few days before it was amended with an unspecified cap. It’s no surprise she had no answers because the Tories plan to continue the tax giveaways to the wealthy and big business while offering no new funding for public services.

There is a clear choice in this election about the kind of country we want Britain to be - between Labour’s plan to transform Britain for the many not the few, and a Conservative party that has held people back and put its wealthy backers first.

Here is the official Conservative HQ response to the “debate”. It’s a statement from David Davis, the Brexit secretary.

The prime minister brought it back to the fundamentals – who is going to get the best Brexit deal, and in doing so who will be able to secure our economy, our public services and our national security.

Tonight she showed the strength and quiet determination to confront the challenges the country faces and set out the way through them. It was a strong, mature, considered performance.

And it couldn’t have been more different to Jeremy Corbyn – who flannelled under pressure and couldn’t get past 30 years of words and deeds that put him on the wrong side of the British people.

This is what political journalists and commentators are saying about the May v Corbyn showdown.

There is no consensus as to a winner, and both Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are judged to have put in solid performances in the face of difficult questioning. But, given that they weren’t playing off the same par (May was miles ahead of Corbyn as a prospective prime minister until recently, and now is just comfortably ahead of him), that arguably counts as a win for Corbyn in terms of expectations.

May had some very awkward moments, and did not really start hitting sixes (to mix sporting metaphors) until Jeremy Paxman kept asking her if she was willing to walk away from the Brexit talks without a deal. Quite why he kept asking was not clear, because she made it very clear that she would. Many experts say this would be madness, but opinion polls show the public likes this stance and the audience reaction tonight seemed to confirm that.

From the BBC’s Nick Robinson

From ITV’s Robert Peston

From the Guardian’s Jonathan Freedland

From the Financial Times’ Lionel Barber

From the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman

From the Spectator’s Isabel Hardman

From the Times’ Patrick Kidd

From the New Statesman’s George Eaton

From the Spectator’s James Forsyth

From the Guardian’s Polly Toynbee

From the Times’ Matt Chorley

From the Guardian’s John Harris

From the Evening Standard’s Joe Murphy

From the Evening Standard’s Kate Proctor

From Sky’s Darren McCaffrey

From the Telegraph’s Christopher Hope

From the Mail’s Tim Sculthorpe

From the Guardian’s Ewen MacAskill

This is from BuzzFeed’s Jim Waterson.

Q: How much will you pay to leave the EU?

May says she will pay a fair settlement?

Q: Have you got a figure in your head on what it is worth paying to get out?

May says the key thing is to stop paying money in every year.

Q: Would you walk out if they demand £100bn?

May says she is prepared to walk out. No deal is better than a bad deal. She wants a good deal, she says.

Q: So you are prepared to leave the EU with no deal.

May says no deal would be better than a bad deal. She is not prepared to sign up to a bad deal.

She is not there to get the best deal at any price, she says.

She says she will be being a difficult woman and ensuring that she negotiates hard.

And that’s it.

Verdicts, summaries and analysis coming up soon.

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Paxman confronts May over immigration. She admits that she has not hit her target.

Q: Who won’t be able to come to the UK under your plans?

May says the government has not worked that out.

Q: And how much will it cost the economy restricting immigration. George Osborne says this policy is economically illiterate?

May says this is a policy that recognises that people have concerns about immigration. That is why it is so important to control it, she says.

She says immigration has an impact on people’s wages.

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