User talk:Lemurbaby/Archive 3

RE: Madagascar

Hello, I am not in any way a qualified expert on pre-colonial Madagascar but I can't remember dealing with migration in any way. It's proably very correct that I didn't take enough care with quotes and references, but as you can see between my edits and the latest before me (18:12, October 15, 2011‎) by Jagwar, most of what I have done is clarifying certain links to imperialist-era great powers, and the one fact I did edit was at the end regarding when the protectorate respectively annexation as colony took place, which I supported with a source I believe. //Gotipe (talk) 10:07, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

• No problem, :) //Gotipe (talk) 11:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Rova of Antananarivo

This is a note to let the main editors of Rova of Antananarivo know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on November 6, 2011. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 6, 2011. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Rova of Antananarivo is a royal palace complex in the central highlands of Madagascar. It served as the former residence of the sovereigns of the Kingdom of Imerina from the 17th to the 19th centuries. The Rova occupies the peak of Analamanga hill in the capital city of Antananarivo. Merina king Andrianjaka (ruled 1610 to 1630) is believed to have captured the hill from a Vazimba king and erected the site's first fortified royal structure. Successive Merina sovereigns continued to rule from the Rova until the fall of the monarchy in 1896. The largest palace within the complex, called Manjakamiadana, was built from 1839 to 1841 for Queen Ranavalona I. A fire on the night of 6 November 1995 destroyed or damaged all the structures within the Rova complex shortly before it was due to be inscribed on the list of UNESCO World Heritage Sites. Reconstruction of the Manjakamiadana exterior is scheduled for completion in 2011. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

History of Madagascar

Hi Lemurbaby,

First of all, I am enchanted and honored you came on my talk page and let these kind comments about my modest (and apparently vandal) contribution on Madagascar History : I have browsed your contributions on WP and Youtube and let me say that you are an extraordinary person. Your many realisations are, not only of the higher quality, but always show a certain (and rare) sense of balance and aesthetic (the colors, pictures, and audio files chosen, etc.) : they give off something undoubtedly beautiful… One cannot be indiferent about Madagascar, Music of Madagascar and Madagascar cuisine after reading/watching what and how you have written/done about (just three examples). But above all, your deeds, because of the time and energy you obviously spent on them, show a deep passion about Madagascar and I rarely encountered such a Malagasy (no matter who you are, to be Malagasy is for me a matter of loving Malagasy people and Madagascar country)

That being said, let me answer you point by point, but before all, please be indulgent with my English and keep in mind that I am a “wikibaby”, not a pro like you, so I still have a lot to learn  :

"1. Hi Kaluvau, Thanks for contributing to the History of Madagascar page. It's an article that needs lots of attention and while it's on my radar "

I totally agree with you, I am convinced that the multiple crises that have succeeded there have been, at the base, due to a lack of knowledge and/or bad interpretations of History by those involved in politics (it is a long debate and I will stop here)

"(I've been doing most of the Madagascar culture and history pages here),"

I discovered it, and was flabbergasted about the culture behind

"it's still a bit far down on my list and I appreciate seeing someone else take some interest in it."

"Les beaux esprits se rencontrent" (I don’t know the equivalent expression in english : "the great mind meet" ?)

"That being said, much of the content you've added is unsupported. Some of it looks like it may be too close to source language."

I am sure you are right, but can you please tell me precisely what part of the article you have in mind by telling that (so that I can modify/improve it) ?

"As it is after your edits, there is an even stronger emphasis on the Austronesian immigrations and subsequent migrations but not much discussion about the actual history of the people living on the island - what they did, how they lived, and why."

You are right it lacks the settlement mode of the ntaolo (how/why they lived on coastal regions (Vezo), how/why some of them penetrated in the forests inland (and became the Vazimba), etc : it is the next step. I have to add it but I have no more time (!) : if you can help me, I will give you some references on your demand (see examples below). I am sure you will do it far better than me.

"Are you planning on adding references to substantiate your changes? It's become a bit confusing because you've added new information where an old citation exists, and that gives the impression that the new information you included is substantiated by the old citation when it may not in fact be so. I encourage you to keep with your edits but be sure to add the citations with page numbers"

Again, can you help me please ? What citations ? How to add page numbers on English WP ? Is there a model ? (I used the simple «  < ref name = ….. / > for practical/time economy reason)

There are a couple of ways to do this. Some people like to use the Harvard Cite style, and supposedly it's preferable because it's easier for people to click through to see all the information about a given reference, but I stick with the first one I learned. You can see examples of Harvard on the article about Ralambo (an editor who works on Malagasy wildlife, Alex Dunkel, helped convert the refs into that style) and the style I usually use, which you can see on Rova of Antananarivo. If you've got to learn to do this, I'd encourage you to try to master the Harvard style. Take a look at the coding and see if it's clear or if some clarification is needed. Inserting page numbers requires setting up a Notes and a References section. Full reference information for books would go in the reference section, while page numbers for books go in the notes section along with almost everything else (full journal cites, website cites, newspaper cites etc). Lemurbaby (talk) 03:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

"and expand further on the aspects of the article not related to the migrations to the island. Also, this distinction between Vezo and Vazimba is one I haven't seen argued in any other source materials, so it will definitely need to be substantiated. Traditionally it's argued that the Vazimba who were pushed out of the Highlands settled on the coast where they took the name Vezo."

Thank you very much for this. I like the Harvard style: it seems simple and elegant, and I will learn it, following your advice. Kaluvau (talk) 12:21, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I also have thought the same thing for a very long time (and also because all the books / articles I read supported this Grandidier thesis he stated more than a hundred years ago), until I discovered a book (from a “recent” doctoral thesis in linguistics history) which for me is the most important ever written on Madagascar, I let you discovering it : « Fitenin-drazana » of P. Simon (in French) (this e-version is not complete but you can browse the essential by key word, using the research windows at left)

it supports the opposite view (the first who dared), and genetics , archeology does not contradict him (see references in the WP article) : the Vazimba (va-yimba –“those of the forest”) where with a high probability the first Austronesians who settled on West coastal regions between 350 BC – AD 500 and first settled inland (in forest) from the 6th century.

So, how to explain the oral traditions you reminded above ? When neo-austronesians (Malay, Javanese, Bugis) of the second millenium (about 1200-1300 if calculated on the basis of the oral traditions collected by Révérend Père François Callet) came in turn inland, they met those first Austronesians Vazimbas (less evoluated/civilised than them who probably came from indianised/”hinduised” indonesian thalassocraties regions) and sometimes pushed them out, not necessarily on coastal region, but just further. But may be did not I manage to show clearly this idea ?

"It's common knowledge that the Malagasy language is derived from Barito with loan words from several other languages (other Austronesian, lots of Arabic, French, English etc) so identifying the source of the names Vezo and Vazimba as evidence of something leans toward "original research" (not permitted here) and doesn't necessarily substantiate the arguments made in the article either. You might consider putting some of the information about the Vazimba into the actual Vazimba page if you can cite your sources and represent the information objectively."

The etymology of Vazimba and Vezo names I presented are not mine, they have been proposed by specialist P. Simon (cited above), after years of linguistics researches (just tape « Vazimba » in the research window). And yet it is an « original thesis » (but not mine!). May I precise that this very work of this Malagasy researcher is today considered as a reference and is always cited by giants of austronesian languages like K.A. Adelaar (Asian Institute, Melbourne, Australia). May be you can help me « representing this information objectively » after reading it ?

About the Vazimba page, I will not have any more time in the three next months, but you can eventually browse the French page on the subject : (Vazimba) and use/translate it if it interest you…(Anyway, if you lack time for translating, you can copy/paste it within a Google tranlsation page and then just rearrange it)

"It's really important to include your references as you're writing so we can have Madagascar articles that are accurate and objective. Much of the early history of Madagascar is not factually known but rather part of oral history and there are conflicting accounts, so we need to be careful not to present original research or state theories as facts." Lemurbaby (talk) 10:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

In fact, there is an important available mass of factual datas and articles about these early times, but in majority written in French, and may be not dug enough by english-speaking researchers... On archaelogy, you can, for example read the brilliant (late) David Rasamuel synthesis article about « Madagascar archaeology » in (French) Encyclopedia Universalis (the last paper vesion). But you can also find some good synhesis in english, like this one (yet old) by W.G. Solheim II (one of/if not the greater specialist of SEA archaeology), or this one (more recent) by P. Verin & Wright. (as you may know, Pierre Vérin has initiated archaeology researches in Madagascar) : they give answer about the how/when on the Vazimba settlement…

FYI, if it interest you, I started recently some articles I wish to be translated in english :

• 1. « Ancient hebraic/jewish migrations in Madagascar »
• 2. (under my old french WP pseudo)« Jazz in Madagascar » (may be too long and lack illustrations, but it is complete regarding datas)

Finally, I would tell you that I also love malagasy music (I’m myself a musician), so I will read carefully what you have written about it and, if necessary, will contribute (but, as I told you above, not immediately). Best regards. Kaluvau (talk) 04:54, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

• Hi Kalovao, I'll write you back in more detail shortly. First let me thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response to my comment. I am very excited you've decided to start contributing to the English Wikipedia on Malagasy topics. It's true that sometimes it's harder to consult foreign-language texts, and in the case of Malagasy I barely know enough to get by, let alone interpret academic-level historical works, so I'm very glad you are able to draw on those resources. (I do have the full text of the Tanara, though, which is helpful).

Hi Lemurbaby,

I supose you mean the Tantara : me too, I don't have it now, but I remember to have read the full texts in Malagasy and in French a long time ago -along with the Firaketana encyclopedia of Ravelojaona et alii- because it is a part of my personnal history, so I have it well in memory. But for the whole Madagascar (I mean all the regions, because the Tantara just deal with the Merina, and even just the nobles in fact), another important and more recent book in Malagasy will be useful for you, if you can get it : Randriamamonjy, F. (2001) Tantaran'i Madagasikara isam-paritra a great synthesis, 30 years of bibliographical researches by an ex-Ambassador, foreword by "Sir" Ratsimamanga himself. Along with the Pierre Vérin (2000) "Madagascar" (I don't know if there is a more recent version), they are very useful for WP (but may be have you already read them): I think that because of their importance, they shoul be translated in english...

I'll be happy to show you how to insert page numbers into cites etc and work with you to tighten up and balance some of the material you're introducing into English Wikipedia, all of which is very valuable and needed.

Thank you in advance :-)

An initial observation is that we have to be careful to maintain objectivity and not overreach beyond what the sources can support, even when we know it personally to be common knowledge etc. It's considered "original research" when we connect dots between source information that others have not already connected. It's frustrating sometimes, especially for people with a strong research background (I hold a Ph.D.). It was very frustrating for me when writing the Malagasy Cuisine article especially because anyone who's lived in Mada would know that the Highlands sauces tend to have a tomato base, and coastal sauces sometimes have coconut milk in them - but I could not find that quoted in any books. Fortunately, the section I wrote on Malagasy Cuisine was published in the latest Bradt travel guide, and I put that information into the piece, so in the end I was able to cite myself as a "legitimate source" in the end article here! :D

You made me laugh. It is a very fun example of compliance with the rules which lead us sometimes in awckward situations. I agree that it is frustrating, but you are right that we should keep it like that (because of WP anonymity).

But that story also highlights another issue. We can't always count on what's been published as fact; we have to weigh the evidence presented and make up our own minds, or else triangulate it against a number of other sources when there is some cause to doubt (such as when numerous other sources make a different claim). That's especially the case when talking about the origins of the Malagasy - it's still a field that's evolving, and researchers are putting forth theories but even they haven't stated them as facts, so we can't restate their findings here as fact either.

You are absolutely right that we are facing theories here. I see what the article need (and what I've court-circuited): we should present the state of the art, the terms of the debate, the opposing theories (at least the two main) about Malagasy origins and settlement (we should see it for example in Ottino, Vérin or, more recently, in some Blench an Adelaar articles). I just focused on the end (my prefered theory) and hidden all the history (of the mystery of this History)...

A good example would be this piece you added to the History of Madagascar article:

"According to oral tradition,[28] new Austronesian clans (Malays, Javanese, Bugis, and Orang Laut),[29] historically and globally - regardless of their native island- referred to as the Hova[20] (of uwa-"commoner", in old Bugis]), have landed in the North West and East coast of the island. Linguists observations about Old Malay (sanscritised), Old Javanese (sanscritised) and Old Bugi borrowings in the initial proto-SEB languages, point out that the first hova vawes came probably in the eighth century at the earliest.[30]"

First, reference 29 does not seem to mention all four of those Austronesian groups when I performed a quick search of the article. Second, the authors of the paper propose the content as a theory and not a fact but this is not clarified for the reader of the WP article. Third, I don't recall reference 30 providing support for the translation of uwa from old Bugis, and if it did I would have expected to see it as a cite for the Bugis inclusion after "new Austronesian clans" - the main point here being it's not clear for me that you're consistently placing the reference at the end of the material it supports. Maybe most importantly, if all of this is according to oral tradition (cite 28), it should be put at the end of all the material it supports (e.g. the end of this paragraph); otherwise it's unclear what oral tradition does or does not support. By implication it suggests that oral history supports all the assertions in the paragraph that follows, when in fact it does not support all the points, only some, but we don't know which. And finally, it would be good to either link or spell out "jargon" like "proto-SEB languages" and limit the frequency of providing linguistic evidence because we're not trying to argue a point in the same way that the authors of that research were doing - we are only supposed to present what is known fact about the History of Madagascar. We summarize the evidence when needed but don't have to provide details because it will weigh down the article and also make it extremely long and un-encyclopedic in style. That general guidance might help you to recraft some of the content you added and insert support where it's needed; I could help with copy-edits along the way and more specific feedback en route.

OK I see, thank you very much for this very detailed and useful guideline. It's clear that my paragraph is totally confused. I was too fast. I am modifying it when possible and will see all the others who need the same clarification/wikification. I would just say to you that, for instant, researches on Madagascar prehistory seems for me to lack coordination, and when you reed the genetics, linguistics, archeology articles, each took apart, you can see that the authors often (but not always) ignore what have been done in other disciplines. So the theories are sometimes condradictory. How to present them ? I succumbed (I shouldn't) to temptation of a synthesis but you are right that we just have to present the problematic here.Kaluvau (talk) 13:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Music of Madagascar

You mentioned you're a musician... what do you play?

Almost all traditional and modern instruments used in malagasy music except brasses, drums and violin (but I'm not a pro, it is just a hobby) and you ?

It will be great if you can help expand the Music of Madagascar article as long as it remains balanced and factual. - Lemurbaby (talk) 10:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

It is almost perfect like that (the GA is well deserved). If I add something, it won't be substantial. I just have a urgent technical question about it : how to upload an audio file ?Kaluvau (talk) 02:59, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

If you look to the left of the screen under the "Toolbox" section you'll see "Upload file". Click on that, then in the middle of the screen you'll see a number of choices, including one that says something like "Upload an audio sample from a song." Click on that one, and it will take you through the rest. But be sure to be familiar with the copyright rules. I already encountered some resistance from experienced WP editors regarding the number of audio files I'd uploaded to that article, because they are not "free audio", meaning audio for which the copyright has expired or does not apply. All of the files I uploaded are still copyright protected. It's permissible to load copyright-protected music clips under certain conditions, but even then there is no guarantee the editors during the review process (e.g. at GA or FA reviews) will find the clip adequately justified to keep it there. The audio file needs to be lowest quality, which means running it through a piece of software to reduce the quality. It needs to be no longer than 30 seconds or 10% of the total duration of the song, whichever is shorter. It needs to be discussed in some way within the body of the article or otherwise tied in adequately to the written content. It's not permissible to use non-free audio when a free-audio clip exists that could illustrate the same style/sound/instrument etc. All copyright information needs to be provided in the file description page. You can look at the description pages for my audio samples (and even copy and paste, then make edits as appropriate) if you want to make it easier. If you are considering uploading audio to that page, would you mind running your choices past me, so we can have a defensible position if/when we want to bring that article to FA status and need to get all these audio clips past the reviewers. I'm hoping to get it up to that level, but I think there's still much more that can be said about Malagasy music - especially the vocal styles and more detail on what distinguishes the various highlands and (especially) coastal musical styles. Lemurbaby (talk) 04:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Lemurbaby,

Thank you for your answer above,

I have read more carefully your beautiful article and wrote a short reviewed in the discussion page behind it : you will see there notably a short list of Youtube links which is an invitation to travel in music throughout Madagascar, in the manner of Selma Lagerloffs' Nils on his wild gooses, but here on the back of (wild?) music notes: enjoy (may be you already know most of them)...

I have also just read the "non free material" debate related to your comments and recommendations above (thank you for the details of the format required), and, if you want, I propose you to provide mp3 audio files of my own realisations on each instrument (except the exceptions). Just tell me please what instrument, genre and melody you would like to display in? As I see you would prefer to upload it yourself, then tell me where can I upload it? (the simplest way would be in the article then you will just have to change the place, I will just prevent you here that I've done an upload)

Reply: What a gift it would be if you could make some recordings we can use! I think we could use samples of the bamboo valiha and steel-string valiha for sure, as well as the kabosy, lokanga, jejy voatavo, possibly the marovany and any of the other more obscure or regional traditional instruments. I think we don't necessarily need a sample of the accordion, percussion, acoustic guitar, sodina etc because I think we can legitimately justify keeping recordings of people like Rakoto Frah, D'Gary and Regis Gizavo! Feel free to upload the audio to the article page directly, and keep in mind if the tunes are not copyrighted then there isn't a limit on the length! As far as styles... I have total faith in your own judgment about the most representative folk tune that you could play on that instrument. It would be good to aim for a broad range of styles from across the regions if possible. I like where you're going with the idea of interpreting one song on each instrument, but then I think we'd miss an opportunity to demonstrate various styles at the same time. One thought that occurred to me would be to have certain clips be composed of two short samples of contrasting musical styles played on the same instrument, when appropriate (e.g. when that instrument is used in distinct ways for different musical genres in various places on the island). If you'd like to bounce ideas here we can talk about the possibilities in more detail. Lemurbaby (talk) 17:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Reply: Noted. Wow, you confront me with a real challenge because I don't currently have all those instruments! So be patient, please. I will start with the ones I have. For the uploading, I'd prefer doing it in the discussion page and, then, let you putting it at the right place within the article, gradually as your redaction advance. I like your (fun) idea of "certain clips (to) be composed of two short samples of contrasting musical styles played on the same instrument, when appropriate", it is, for example, the case for marovany (South style-Vezo&Antandroy, Center style-Merina&Betsileo, East style-like Rakotozafy who is from the Sihanaka tribe), perhaps also the kabosy (South style-Bara, Center-Merina and Betsileo, Western style-Sakalava), and also the guitar (I can provide a ba gasy sample contrasting with the South style of D'Gary). As I told you above, I don't play the lokanga (I have notions of violin, but lokanga style is sincerely very difficult for me, I admire the Malagasy players of it). As far as the valiha (which became specifically a Center instrument, not because the other regions didn't played it-they replaced it by marovany-, but because of the lacks of bamboo in other regions): as you suggest, it would be interessant to show the different sounds of it (torotenany-bamboo, etc.). Ultimately, it's a very big challenge.Kaluvau (talk) 20:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

PS1: a simple idea is that we choose just one typical Malagasy melody (the Rakotozafy-marovany or the Randafison I put in link in my review, for example, which for me summarize everything) and show how it sounds on each instrument. But I let you making your choice...

PS2: It will take a little bit time to answer you (may be 2 or 3 weeks, even more), but I keep in mind the urgency of the recordings for your FA review, and I'm trying to do it as quick as possible once I get your preferences (here or in my talk page).

PS3: what is your PhD domain? (no don't tell me, let me guess)

I don't see any guesses, so I'll tell you. :) I have a doctorate in International Education Policy. Writing things on Wikipedia satisfies my passion for teaching and sharing knowledge. :) Lemurbaby (talk) 17:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

You shouldn't tell me, I have already eliminated "History of Madagascar" and "(Ethno)Musicology"... So we share the same passions (teaching and sharing knowledge is my job), and I'm preparing a PhD (I will never tell you in what, and will leave you to "really" guess it :)

See you

Kaluvau (talk) 12:33, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, history seems like a good guess, or anthropology. Is it in the humanities at least? You need to give me some hints here. :D Lemurbaby (talk) 05:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Free Audio Files

Hi Lemurbaby, I started the uploads. Kaluvau (talk) 02:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Lemurbaby for the barnstar and the award, but I don't deserve them! In comparison with you, I still haven't done anything. And I'm just starting to contribute. But I take them as encouragement to continue, so thank you very much. Kaluvau (talk) 12:17, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

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Rainilaiarivony and Rainivoninahitriniony

Why did both Rainilaiarivony and Rainivoninahitriniony never left any children with either one of the three queens of Madagascar that they married? Were they infertile or homosexual?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:03, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Good question! I'm not 100% sure that there were never any children, although if it happened I've never seen it mentioned anywhere. But I suspect the relationships were largely if not entirely asexual. Rasoherina would hardly consent to bed with the man who murdered her husband, and he (Rainivoninahitriniony) had his pick of women (he reportedly engaged in drunken orgies). Rainilaiarivony was already married and fathered 17 children with his first wife, whom he only divorced (reluctantly) when Ranavalona II converted to Christianity. Ranavalona II already had children by her first husband, and again their marriage was more political than physical. When he married Ranavalona III, he was very much older than her, and I have a sense from the sources I've read that they also lived a fairly celibate lifestyle together. He was attracted to her but the women did have the choice not to bed with their husbands and I have the sense that this choice was exercised in all these cases. Lemurbaby (talk) 02:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. I'm learning everyday.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

"Around 1848—the exact date of his marriage is not recorded—Rainilaiarivony, then around 20 or 21 years old and having adopted the name Radilifera, concluded a marriage with his paternal cousin Rasoanalina. She would bear him no fewer than sixteen children over the course of their marriage. In addition, a one-year-old son that Rasoanala"

Just want to point out the two different spellings of Rainilaiarivony's first wife, which is correct?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this. I'll correct it now. Lemurbaby (talk) 11:56, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Ahalya

Hi Lemurbaby. I was lucky to have you as a GA reviewer for this article. Now I am planning for a FA. I will request you to take a look at the article and give constructive criticism on the talk, as you did in the GA review. The article would benefit more if you improve it further like you did Matangi. Thanks a lot. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 10:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Jaojoby - Mbola Velono.ogg

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Feologild

Hi there, just to let you know I've mentioned you at Feologild. Don't feel you have to reply; don't feel you have to have any further part in the issue, if you don't want to- let me know if that's the case! J Milburn (talk) 02:53, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Ratings of national cuisines

Hey, sorry to take so long to get back to you about importance of cuisines. In regards to national cuisines you have to look at them on a scale of 1 to 4:

• 0 - n/a
• 1 - low
• 2 - mid
• 3 - high
• 4 - top

The way I use this scale is how the cuisine affects global cuisines, for example French, Italian, Indian and Chinese cuisines all have had a significant global impact on how people eat and rate at the top level of importance. On the other end of the cuisine scale you have examples such as Eritrean and Luxembourgian cuisine which would rate low because of the almost negligible impact on global eating habits and would be assessed as low importance. Malagasy cuisine would rate low because it really isn't that globally important to how people eat. Its agricultural impact would actually rate higher because of the impact Madagascar has one of the most important staples in the spice world, vanilla. So I would rate the agriculture in Madagascar article as being of high importance.

Your example of the the saffron articles as being high importance is a little off because the rating is not for WP:Food but for WP:Spices, a current task force and former WikiProject. Saffron is one of the most important spices in the world, but its food importance is a bit less - probably simply mid to high. Does this help explain my rationale for downgrading the importance of Malagasy cuisine to low? --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Good topic

Hello Lemurbaby; your incredible work on the Madagascar articles is a credit to you as an editor. May I suggest that you consider nominating them for Good topic once you have finished. If you get them all to Featured article status, you should definitely nominate them for featured topic. Keep up the hard work, and this below:

Your GA nomination of Eusèbe Jaojoby

The article Eusèbe Jaojoby you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Eusèbe Jaojoby for things which need to be addressed. ♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:22, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Passed :)!--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 15:09, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

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Re:Appreciate your comments/edits on Madagascar

I'll do my best to have a look through the article in the next few days. J Milburn (talk) 20:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I've made a few tweaks which will hopefully make the discussion of the politics a little more neutral. I'll hopefully find some time to look through the rest of the article in detail, after which time I'll hopefully be able to comment regarding the depth/breadth issue. J Milburn (talk) 16:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Signpost interview

I'd like to do an interview with you for the Signpost, but you don't have an "email this user" link on the side. As the interviews are usually done by email (to avoid spilling the beans), could you email me if you are willing to do the interview? Use the "email this user" link on my user page. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

GAN Madagascar

Hi,

I have begun reviewing your GAN and left some comments at Talk:Madagascar/GA1. It's a little hard going because the page is soooo slow to load. The article appears well written, but the sources don't seem up to par. There are sections that are under sourced. I don't think the Encyclopedia Britannica or a travel guide are good sources for most items.

The images are wonderful. I would like to see this article pass. It's very interesting.

Regards, MathewTownsend (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi sorry just saw your post! Yes looks good for GA. FA I haven't had much experience of in recent years as it can be extremely demanding but I'll give it a thorough read later and highlight anything I think an FA should have. Naturally being an FA on a country it has to be very comprehensive and cover a wide range of topics.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. Looks great! Maybe you could add a section on law and order and crime (e.g crime figures, the Malagasy police force and court systems etc) the Media, (what are the main television/radio channels and newspapers etc?), Heraldry (e.g some information about the flags coat of arms and other flags used in the country) and also add something about Malagasy cuisine?. Also, how about a section on Palaeontology, extremely important on the island of course? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:31, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• Congratulations on getting Madagascar to GA! Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Peer review limits changed

This is a notice to all users who currently have at least one open peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review. Because of the large number of peer review requests and relatively low number of reviewers, the backlog of PRs has been at 20 or more almost continually for several months. The backlog is for PR requests which have gone at least four days without comments, and some of these have gone two weeks or longer waiting for a review.

While we have been able to eventually review all PRs that remain on the backlog, something had to change. As a result of the discussion here, the consensus was that all users are now limited to one (1) open peer review request.

If you already have more than one open PR, that is OK in this transition period, but you cannot open any more until all your active PR requests have been closed. If you would like someone to close a PR for you, please ask at Wikipedia talk:Peer review. If you want to help with the backlog, please review an article whoe PR request is listed at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog/items. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Rwanda - testing waters for second FAC

Hi Lemurbaby

You left a message on my talk page back in August, regarding the Rwanda article. I have recently shortened and rebalanced the history section somewhat, following comments made during the first FAC and I'm considering putting it up for FAC again. Just wondered, if you have time to look, whether you think the article is ready for that, and if not what work I should do on it.

You also mentioned that you were about to move to Rwanda for two years... Hope that is going well, if indeed you are there! Many thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:38, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Archiving links

There's one minor thing with archival links that I recently learned about myself: If you archive a link that is still active, use the parameter |deadurl=no. If the original links have died, use |deadurl=yes. It's a minor thing that can be fixed by searching for citations with the archiveurl parameter. Just something for the future and FAC. – VisionHolder « talk » 18:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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Images of Ranavalona III

Hey, I've uploaded many other images of Ranavalona III here. Please use them and incorporate some of them into the article or where you find they best belong. Thanks.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:41, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Rwanda again

Hi, just to let you know that I have put Rwanda back up for FAC. Please check it out and comment at WP:Featured article candidates/Rwanda/archive2. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 10:45, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

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FAC

OK, I'll have a look either today or tomorrow. I also have an FAC, Common Tern which could do with more reviews Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of your FAC, I will try to take a look at it tonight. (FYI, one of photos from your article is at WP:FPC—Wikipedia:FPC#Andafiavaratra Palace. If you feel it qualifies and you feel qualified to vote, please do.) If I have time, I will also have a look at Common Tern for Jimbleak. – Maky ^« talk » 01:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I will also take a look though it may take me a few days (longer). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:59, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

Hey - just wanted to say thank you for your support at the Stephen_Hawking FAR - it was the first FA support I've ever had and I'll treasure it appropriately :) Fayedizard (talk) 21:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations and image comments

Congrats on the FA!

I would be fine with File:Rainilaiarivony funeral PS.jpg as a fair use image in the Rainilaiarivony article - it is a unique historic image and I think it adds to the reader's understanding of the reaction in Madagascar to Rainilaiarivony's death. As fair use it would have to be transferred to / hosted on the English Wikipedia.

I also wondered if an image of or related to the French invasion / takeover could be added to the article? File:LaGuerreAMadagascar.jpg is very striking and free. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree about File:Rainilaiarivony funeral PS.jpg. We have so little information on places like Madagascar, and "a picture is worth a thousand words." It's not as if anyone's ability to earn royalties etc. will be harmed by fair use of the image. Rather, the opposite, as it brings added visibility to the island and conveys the ambiance of place that can't be described in words.

And congratulations from me too on the FA! I know how hard you worked on it. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Your Madagascar article messages

Hello Lemurbaby, i took a small Wiki-break during the last months - sorry for missing your requests for reviews on Madagascar articles. Congratulations on the latest FA, great work and an interesting read. GermanJoe (talk) 19:38, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

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Rwanda

Hi Lemurbaby

Just to say thank you for your detailed review and criticism during the Rwanda peer reviews and FAC. Feels like it was quite a long road, but I think the article is much better for your input, and I'm glad to be finally celebrating its promotion! All the best  — Amakuru (talk) 12:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Old image

Hi Lemurbaby, I uploaded File:Royal Palace and Courts of Justice.png as you requested a while ago - hope it is useful for an old free image of the Rova. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Ruhrfisch. I'll find a good place to use it soon. Lemurbaby (talk) 07:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Rainilaiarivony

This is a note to let the main editors of Rainilaiarivony know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on April 29, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 29, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Rainilaiarivony (1828–1896) was the Prime Minister of Madagascar from 1864 to 1895. Named Commander-in-Chief of the Army by King Radama II upon the death of Queen Ranavalona I in 1861, Rainilaiarivony played a key role in transforming Madagascar's government from an absolute to a constitutional monarchy. He was promoted to Prime Minister in 1864 and remained in power for the next 31 years by marrying three queens in succession: Rasoherina, Ranavalona II and Ranavalona III. As Prime Minister, Rainilaiarivony modernized state administration and legislated the Christianization of the monarchy. His diplomatic and military acumen preserved Madagascar's sovereignty from colonial interests until the French capture of the royal palace in September 1895. Although holding him in high esteem, the French colonial authority deposed the prime minister and exiled him to French Algeria, where he died less than a year later in August 1896. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

madagascarian cuisine

I totally agree with your point. I have noted several examples of what can only be described as a kind of culinary imperialism on wiki. Irondome (talk) 05:42, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Robert Drury (Sailor)

Hi, thanks for the message. That Ranavalona III article is amazing! I'm trying to get back into Wikipedia editing after a long hiatus. I'm really impressed at how much the Madagascar related articles have improved since 2007. I'll try to stay in the loop and contribute where I can. Fanoman (talk) 14:31, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

harvnb/sfn helpa

Hi. I just finished the year fix on Ranavalona III. To work effectively with this citation system, you need to install a script; paste:

• importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js');

into:

• User:Lemurbaby/common.js (and then refresh it)

The doc's at:

• User:Ucucha/HarvErrors

This tool highlights issues with the linkage between the footnotes and the full citations, and will note citations that are not used. {sfn} is a great system, and by using this script you'll be sure to get things right.

fyi, we've met before; I was User:Alarbus, who converted this page to {sfn} in the first place. It's really a vary poignant story. Terima kasih. nb: I also {sfn}'d Ahalya, that's on the main page right now. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 04:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Alarbus, good to be in touch with you again - and thanks for all your help with the conversion. As you can see, I've been slow to get comfortable with Harvard, but I appreciate your help in getting me there. I tried to do what you suggested but it doesn't seem to be working... would you have a look when you can? Cheers, Lemurbaby (talk) 04:33, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi; or ya could call me 'Jack', as most will (or David, which is true).

You pasted the "* " in there, too; just cut it and the space, and refresh the page. Then start looking. Florida class battleship has three busted links, for example.

The harvnb and sfn templates are kin; they really share most of their code. The syntax is a bit picky, but coupled with the script, things sort out. I expect this script will become a prefs gadget at some point, so you;ll just be able to turn it on. fyi, there are a lot of useful scripts about; see mine:

• User:Br'er Rabbit/common.js

I just read the Signpost piece. We need more of you. What are you working on? I'll help ;) Br'er Rabbit (talk) 04:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate the offer! Actually, if you have any interest in helping with the articles on the 2009 Malagasy political crisis (there's an FA version in Polish I've translated thru google and I'm gradually incorporating the new info), or Marc Ravalomanana, or Andry Rajoelina, I'd be much obliged. Similarly, there's an FA article in French on Mada's first president, Philibert Tsiranana, that would be easy to translate in google and update. But no pressure - I will get to them eventually if you don't. :) Another thing - I'd like to have a really nice map of the neighborhoods of Antananarivo, potentially including elevation (the hills have culturally defined the town and population distribution for centuries). I believe there are some people on WP who make maps upon request, but I don't know who or how to reach them. Any ideas? Lemurbaby (talk) 03:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

PS - I must be doing something wrong with that script, as it doesn't seem to be loading anything...? Lemurbaby (talk) 03:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Your .js looks right; see the bit about purging your cache: User:Lemurbaby/common.js and do it. You're not using Internet Explorer are you? It's retarded and often gets things quite wrong. See Florida class battleship#Footnotes; it's page I know needs work and is currently showing red warnings generated by the script. It should look much like the examples at User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.

Commons:User:Sadalmelik was /the/ map editor, but they're not editing these days. A pity; the toxicity drives many away. I'll look for map stuff; there's a WP:WPMAPS; they might be helpful...

I'm familiar with the 2009 crisis; followed that at the time. I long lived in Indonesia, which I'm sure you know is where the Malagasy people originate. I expect they're similarly pleasant people. I'll have a look at the articles you've linked and do what I can. Ravalomanana's is still seeking to return, isn't he? (shudders.) My thing is structure; things like good referencing mechanisms and proper form of wiki-markup. I've been known to get highly critical of poor users and practises (not thinking these will apply to you). I've been editing some of the articles it seems you've been working on. See, for example, how I set up a citation in {{cite doi/10.2307.2F3674005}} and how it is now shared by five articles. This is the future of {{cite journal}} and articles sourced to them.

Br'er Rabbit (talk) 05:01, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Congratulations on appearing in the lead story on Wikipedia Signpost. Well deserved! Greenmaven (talk) 10:00, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• It's kind of you to take the time to share the love. Thank you! Lemurbaby (talk) 03:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

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