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buro91

USB 2.0 issues on new MacBook Pro 13" 2020

Discussion

Apologies for posting with a new account, but I would like to share an issue I've encountered that I think is widespread but I've not had a great experience with Apple acknowledging that the issue exists.

This is my first Apple device so I've had to learn how to use it whilst debugging it. I work in tech and have been an engineer for years so I'm not new to figuring out issues, I like to get to the root cause. The issue appeared on day one, I contacted Apple on day three.

Issue Symptom

When I use an external USB-C hub in any port of my MBP ( MacBook Pro 2020 13", i7, 32GB RAM, Four ThunderBolt 3 ports ), and connect USB 2.0 devices that include a Filco keyboard and a Razer DeathAdder mouse... after a while (minute or hours) the USB 2.0 devices will stop responding (keyboard dead, mouse not moving or clicking).

This is logged with Apple as support case 101088030092 . Feel free to cite this when contacting Apple if you are experiencing this exact issue.

Debugging

Maybe it's the USB-C hub? So I have used:

  • StarTech 7 port USB-C hub (5x USB-A, 2x USB-C)

  • Satechi USB-C hub (3x USB-A, 1x Eth, 1x HDMI, 1x USB-C power in)

  • Anker USB-C hub (4x USB-A)

Using any of those hubs, with the 2 USB 2.0 devices attached, at some point the devices will freeze up. Unplugging and inserting the USB-C hub does not solve it.

Maybe it's one of the USB-A USB 2.0 devices? So I have used:

  • Filco Majestouch keyboard by itself (still freezes)

  • Razer DeathAdder by itself (still freezes)

  • Both of the above with all of the USB-C hubs I have (still freezes)

Then a minor breakthrough:

  • If I put the mouse in any USB-C hub, and put the keyboard in any other USB-C hub and connect these to any Thunderbolt USB-C ports... the USB 2.0 devices still freeze across all hubs at the same time

This is confusing... as if it were 1 device or 1 hub I would not expect a synchronisation of it freezing across all USB 2.0 devices.

Note that I am highlighting USB 2.0 devices, as the USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 devices I have connected at the same time, like an Elgato Camlink... are unaffected and continue to function normally even when connected via a USB-C hub that has USB 2.0 devices attached that have become unresponsive.

So starts the research:

  • SMC Reset - does nothing... problem recurs, reboots and SMC resets both resolve the issue temporarily but it will recur within minutes or hours.

I contact Apple:

  • SMC Reset - still fruitless

  • Press d whilst it boots, run diagnostic, all good - devices still freeze a bit later

  • Left Option + Left Comment (or was it Control?) + P + R - this is safe mode - and still the issue appears

  • Disk Utility > First Aid - all good but still devices hang

  • Create a test user, login as that and does it happen? Yes Apple support person, it still happens

  • Reinstall operating system - this is day four since receiving the new MacBook Pro and I've only installed Chrome and Firefox... but sure - as expected, the issue remains.

  • Apple provide a Capture_Data.dmg utility, and looking at this it's a script that just collates everything, logs, pcaps, top, process information, everything... I run this and to my surprise the issue occurs whilst it is running. I send the capture data (311MB as a .dmg file) to Apple Support.

In the meantime, something nags me... that earlier discovery that USB 2.0 devices freeze even across different simultaneously connected USB-C hubs. This is weird and suggests it's the Mac and not the hubs or devices. So I start to view Apple logo > About this Mac > System Report before, during and after this happens, refreshing the view constantly.

What I notice here is that USB 2.0 devices behave normally until they become unresponsive, but then as soon as they are unresponsive they will forever remain in the System Information even if unplugged from the hubs or re-inserted. This applies to all USB 2.0 devices. Anything that shows up as USB 3.0 behaves normally. I also notice that every one of these USB-C hubs shows a VIA Labs USB2.0 hub as the parent for the USB 2.0 devices.

Then a minor discovery, on a forum I found someone mention that they see an issue almost identical and that they have a workaround which is to use the USB hub in their monitor.

So I order another USB-C hub (my 4th in a week) a CalDigit TS3+.

I plug in the CalDigit and look at System Information and now my USB 2.0 devices are showing up as USB 3.0 devices connected to the Apple USB 3.0 hub.

I use this, and the issue does not recur at all... it's fixed.

Hypothesis

Apple has a USB 2.0 issue with either the chipset they are using, or a Catalina bug regarding the handling and refreshing of USB 2.0 devices.

However this can be worked around.

USB-C hubs vary in their functionality and there are two types:

  1. USB hubs that are transparent proxies

    1. The Anker, Satechi and StarTech hubs

  2. USB hubs that are terminating proxies

    1. The CalDigit hub and anonymous person on the internet and their monitor hub

Transparent proxies take the USB 2.0 input and present it as USB 2.0 to the MacBook Pro. The Mac or Catalina then will do something wrong and the USB 2.0 devices will freeze / become unresponsive at some point (minutes or hours after being attached).

Terminating proxies take the USB 2.0 input, terminate it, and present it as a fresh input that is USB 3.0 to the MacBook Pro. Everything is good in this scenario.

Affected Apple Devices

I know my MacBook Pro 13" 2020 is affected, and a friend has verified a new MacBook Air is also affected.

For both, the workaround of finding a USB-C hub that presents USB 2.0 devices as USB 3.0 devices works.

What have Apple said?

That they cannot see any issue in the data collected (and my analysis even knowing the correct timestamp of when the issue occurred during data collection, is that only 1 log file showed evidence of the issue... a single line showing that Google Chrome browser suddenly didn't see the USB keyboard and has switched to the Apple keyboard).

Apple also say that they have received no other support calls that relate to this.

I got the feeling that they think this is a user error.

Related Links

These are links I found that hint that the issue is more widespread:

Conclusion

I have a workaround, so I'm happy and now love my first ever Mac.

But I'm pretty sure other people aren't going to buy 4 USB-C hubs and work through what the root cause is and how to workaround the problem. So I'm putting this information on Reddit hoping that others who experience it can self-verify whether this is the same issue and communicate that to Apple Support so that Apple prioritise a fix. Also to make it discoverable by Google so that if people are looking for a resolution to this issue, they find this and can see a workaround is possible.

I do super recommend that CalDigit USB-C hub btw... if I hadn't bought that my entire Apple experience wouldn't have survived a week and now I think it will last years.

Follow-ups

  • 2020-06-29

    • The Apple USB-A to USB-C is a terminating USB proxy that presents a single USB 2.0 device as USB 3.0 and does work.

    • I'd like to confirm that the issue appeared both on battery and whilst connected to a charger. This remained true even if the power was directly connected or connected via a USB-C hub, and even if the power was connected to the left or right side of the MBP. Power vs battery, and method of power, appear unrelated to the issue.

  • 2020-07-16

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